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Author Topic: Apple corer - anyone here of this before?  (Read 3418 times)

Offline Linda M.

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Apple corer - anyone here of this before?
« on: January 12, 2016, 10:49:15 pm »
This was from David A. Cushman's website - Huh, me being a newbee, that sound like a great idea!


An apple corer is a domestic kitchen tool that can be modified in order to make a tool for cutting holes in beeswax foundation, to achieve faster drawing of comb by the bees and save wax.

This tool can be found in most households being used for its correct purpose, but if it has its teeth sharpened with a fine toothed file, it will easily cut holes in fresh foundation.

Why poke holes in new foundation? Is the indignant question that often follows my statement, but it is good for various reasons and actually speeds up the process of comb drawing by allowing the bees to communicate during the early stages, when normally they would be separated by a solid wall of foundation.

The holes allow the clustering bees to communicate with one another which gives them a more stable sense of community (my surmise, backed by observation), it also allows easy passage at several points for bees to traverse from one side of the growing comb to the other.

 Five years after writing the original page, I came across the article reproduced below that was written by Arthur Dines and published in Bee Craft, June 1971 edition. Please consider the date of writing when reading the text as the cover price of the magazine was ?0.07 with postage at 2 1/2 pence!

The Price Of Holes

Buy foundation at ?1 per lb, cut holes in the sheets and sell the bits that come out as scrap wax. Sounds daft! All right then, let the manufacturer supply us with perforated foundation, with more sheets per pound. A good idea ? We do not know yet, but it might be. Several years ago a Slovakian scientist found out that bees would very quickly draw out sheets of foundation which had holes in them, and that provided the holes were not above a certain size the spaces would be filled perfectly with worker cells. In his experiments he found that up to 30% or 40% of the total area could be so removed. Some of us here are trying out the idea this summer, are you willing to have a go?

Although it seems that round holes did not give the maximum economy, these are by far the simplest to make. Some sort of sharp-edged metal tube, used like a housewife's pastry cutter, does the job. The maximum recommended diameter is 30 mm, to be on the safe side say one and one eighth inches in our funny old measurements. Such things as aluminum containers for medical preparations could be sources for such a tool. Mr. Ashwin, of Robertsbridge, Sussex, has found the ideal punch. An ordinary light bulb that has spent its normal life has the glass broken away, the brass rim that was around the bulb base is just the right size.

Quite seriously, the B.B.K.A. Research Committee thinks that a mass experiment among ordinary beekeepers on this idea might prove to be valuable. We want a thousand people to try it out; will you be one? Let us know your results, tell us what size of hole used, how many per sheet, under what conditions, brood combs or supers, and add any other information you think might be useful. The Convenor of the Committee expects a thousand letters before the end of the season. Send them to:- A.M. Dines.


Offline deknow

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Re: Apple corer - anyone here of this before?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2016, 11:26:40 pm »
One 'ah ha' moment I've had was hearing Dee talk about bees seeing foundation as damaged comb.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Apple corer - anyone here of this before?
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2016, 05:44:26 am »
Interesting, I might try it on plasticell.
Jim
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Offline rwlaw

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Re: Apple corer - anyone here of this before?
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2016, 07:41:28 am »
I started using plasticell and broke the corners off. my thoughts were that it might help the winter cluster communicate better in the winter. One day I was looking for the queen in a hive and a bee caught my eye, kinda moving like a queen heading for the corner where the holes would be, but it was a older frame with no holes. Opps no hole! Boinked into the edge of frame up and over to the other side, so they do use them.
 Downside, I had a queen I wanted to pull and couldn't find her if you had a gun to my head. Finally figured her out, she would hide in the hole and pop out on the bottom side when I would turn the frame over. Wouldn't move anymore than a half inch from the hole, when the frame would start to turn, she'd shoot into the hole. One smart little wench!
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Offline little john

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Re: Apple corer - anyone here of this before?
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2016, 07:42:00 am »
Apple corer, broken light-bulbs ... ?

If you want to make life much easier for yourself, then make a hot cell punch. It's easy enough - simply attach a ring of metal (plumbing fitting, tube offcut, whatever) to a handle of some sort.



Then just dip this tool in boiling water in order to make a nice clean hole in your comb or wax foundation. That way, you can use the tool for punching-out cells for queen-rearing, as well as experimenting with this rather dubious idea.

Why dubious ? Well, bees are more than well-equipped to make such holes themselves if they really wanted them. But in my experience, whenever I've used the above punches during queen-rearing - the bees then come along afterwards and repair the holes I've made. That tells me that they have a much better idea of what their comb structure should be like, than I do.

LJ
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Offline little john

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Re: Apple corer - anyone here of this before?
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2016, 08:31:54 am »
I've just realised there may be a huge misunderstanding here ...

In nature, combs are attached - usually continuously - at the top. Far less so at the sides, and the bottoms are invariably allowed to hang freely. When a bee wishes to pass from one side of the comb to the other, it does so around the sides or bottom of that comb.

However, when a comb is located inside a frame, the sides and bottom of that frame do NOT constitute parts of the comb - they are viewed by the bees as being obstructions, around which they must travel in order to reach the other side of a comb. Although some bees tolerate these obstructions, others chew away at the foundation adjacent to that obstruction - in order to re-establish a new comb edge inside that frame - around which they can then more easily pass. But these are NOT 'holes in combs', these are newly established edges to that comb.

So - what we as humans see as being 'gaps around the edges of combs', are actually gaps between new comb edges and the obstructions created by the presence of wooden frames.

LJ
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Offline JackM

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Re: Apple corer - anyone here of this before?
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2016, 09:06:53 am »
This caught my eye because I have been trying to find an apple corer for a couple days for a different project.  Best I can find is a Pineapple corer.  (off season)

Anyhow, I don't use foundation and I have always wondered why the center combs seem to have holes in them.  The above posts explain, at least in my mind.
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Offline LKBruns

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Re: Apple corer - anyone here of this before?
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2016, 09:16:44 am »
Is it better if he holes line up? So that they can travel across multiple frames...

Offline mtnb

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Re: Apple corer - anyone here of this before?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2016, 12:25:09 pm »
so the point here is...? I'm not getting it I guess. lol The op states that the holes causes the bees to draw comb faster? I understand how the holes allows them to communicate and move around easier.

My only hive so far has been foundationless and they always leave holes along the sides. They did love their holes. lol It did seem to me that sometimes the holes changed, but I wasn't sure. Mine left holes everywhere. Here and there. Always along the sides. Except once in the middle, but that was my fault. lol My first year comb is straight and strong.

Anyway, how does it help them to build faster? On my fl frames, they start mid center top and work down and out. Mostly. The holes seem to come last.


PS. Hi Linda! Welcome! :)
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Offline mtnb

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Re: Apple corer - anyone here of this before?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2016, 12:44:04 pm »
Wait. What now? lol I thought bees communicate through the vibrations on the comb itself? I read that it is easier for them to communicate on foundationless comb than on plastic foundation because the vibrations are clearer and easier for them to create and interpret. (on fl comb)  I mean, I'm no music major but I guess maybe on plastic comb that little hole creates some sort of...???...and increases the resonance or something?

Maybe I'm not looking at the bigger picture? Maybe they're thinking about communicating over distances in the hive to allow them to communicate to build here or there and do this or that quicker. I really don't see any other purpose for the holes other than quicker travel and maybe better communication on plastic foundation due to the music/vibration thing over distance. Otherwise, I don't see how it would cause them to draw comb faster.

lol mind boggled
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Offline Richard M

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Re: Apple corer - anyone here of this before?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2016, 08:42:59 pm »
Wait. What now? lol I thought bees communicate through the vibrations on the comb itself? I read that it is easier for them to communicate on foundationless comb than on plastic foundation because the vibrations are clearer and easier for them to create and interpret. (on fl comb)  I mean, I'm no music major but I guess maybe on plastic comb that little hole creates some sort of...???...and increases the resonance or something?

Maybe I'm not looking at the bigger picture? Maybe they're thinking about communicating over distances in the hive to allow them to communicate to build here or there and do this or that quicker. I really don't see any other purpose for the holes other than quicker travel and maybe better communication on plastic foundation due to the music/vibration thing over distance. Otherwise, I don't see how it would cause them to draw comb faster.

lol mind boggled

I think "communicate" in this context means to "connect", "travel" or "move". As in road communications, railway/road communications, rather than passage of information as in talk, text, write, email etc.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Apple corer - anyone here of this before?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2016, 09:12:06 pm »
Reach Huber's New Observations Upon Bees Vol II Chapter IV and it's obvious that the bees are coordinating the work on opposite sides and communicating during this process.  A bee smoothing and thinning the bottom of the cell has a counterpart on the opposite side working simultaneously.  I think there is a lot of actual coordination taking place with those communication holes and in normal comb building (no foundation) it is natural and easy for them.  With foundation, the communication is blocked.

Just a couple of those kind of references:

"Moreover, the work made upon one face of the comb is part of what is needed on the opposite face:  it is a reciprocal relation, a mutual connection of the parts rendering them subservient to one another.  It is therefore undoubted that a slight irregularity of their work on one side will affect the shape of the cells on the other side in a similar way."

"Now it became more difficult to follow the operations of the bees, because they often interposed their head between the eye of the observer and the bottom of the cell; but we noticed that the partition upon which their teeth worked had become transparent enough to enable us to see through it what passed on the other face; we could thus see very distinctly the end of the teeth of the bee working at carving on the opposite face and follow all her movements.  We made this still more perceptible, by placing the hive so that the light would strike more fully upon the cavities which we desired to see outlined."

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Offline triple7sss

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Re: Apple corer - anyone here of this before?
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2016, 11:35:32 am »
"On my fl frames, they start mid center top and work down and out. Mostly. The holes seem to come last."  I know what you mean MT Bee Girl but from sort of a Zen standpoint it make me chuckle a little.  As in "Only when the frame is nearly filled do the holes appear."

Offline Linda M.

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Re: Apple corer - anyone here of this before?
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2016, 07:13:15 pm »
 I watched one of your You Tube videos Michael Bush - "Beekeeping work shop Part 1"  -  Very informative and brought into perspective more on the bee communication amongst other things that I will defiantly keep in mind. Thank you! Can't wait to watch the other 3 parts!

Offline Beardog

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Re: Apple corer - anyone here of this before?
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2016, 08:06:49 pm »
I believe that they would build comb faster with holes because without any the empty/not built out side of the frame is seen to be too far away from the cluster.  Strong colonies don't have a problem with this, but a developing colony may.  Add a few holes and that new side of the frame is now an inch away rather than ten inches.  It kind of allows expansion through the frames instead of around them. 

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