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Author Topic: Can oxalic acid vaporization be used with honey supers on?  (Read 9624 times)

Offline 2Sox

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Can oxalic acid vaporization be used with honey supers on?
« on: July 19, 2018, 12:31:23 pm »
Apparently, this question has been asked before and I'm not clear on what the consensus on this subject is.  Fat Bee Man does it with supers on all the time and has no problem with it. I'd like to know what you opinions are and what your experiences have been.  Thanks.
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Offline rockink

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Re: Can oxalic acid vaporization be used with honey supers on?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2018, 01:46:17 pm »
Seems like this is with everything else when it comes to beekeeping. Lots of opinions and I'm not sure there is any proof that you shouldn't do an OA treatment with honey supers on.

However I think it also matters if your selling honey or not. I personally wouldn't buy honey if I knew it was treated but then again I'm sure there tons of things I've eaten that i wouldn't have if I knew the back story.

If my verroa count is really high and you need to do something quickly I would but then I probably wouldn't harvest the honey or most likely just remove any drawn and capped honey frames.

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Offline iddee

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Re: Can oxalic acid vaporization be used with honey supers on?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2018, 01:56:59 pm »
Brushy Mountain Bee Farm says

"Oxalic acid applications are for outdoor use only and should be used only in late fall or early spring when little or no brood is present. DO NOT use when honey supers are in place to prevent contamination of honey".

https://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Oxalic-Acid-Kit
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Offline texanbelchers

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Re: Can oxalic acid vaporization be used with honey supers on?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2018, 02:33:09 pm »
The label says no:  https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=EPA-HQ-OPP-2015-0043-0018


I have seen it advocated that the supers could be removed, do the treatment, then put them back on.  Since the OAV has a 3-5 day effective period, I suspect it would migrate into the supers to some extent.

Offline 2Sox

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Re: Can oxalic acid vaporization be used with honey supers on?
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2018, 05:46:53 pm »
Wow.  This is VERY useful information.  Thank you all very much.
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Offline Bush_84

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Re: Can oxalic acid vaporization be used with honey supers on?
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2018, 08:23:16 pm »
I essentially did a provap clone this winter and did a lot of research on the subject. The short answer is no you shouldn?t treat with supers on. You can put a barrier between the the brood nest and supers and remove after. You could also just put them on another hive for a short term and put them back after.

I do disagree about oa use with brood present. It doesn?t penetrate capped brood. That?s why they say that but sequential treatments get past this. I plan on treating once per week for three weeks after my supers are removed and a single treatment before they go into my shed. This should be very effective at killing varroa.
Keeping bees since 2011.

Also please excuse the typos.  My iPad autocorrect can be brutal.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Can oxalic acid vaporization be used with honey supers on?
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2018, 12:01:33 am »
Wow.  This is VERY useful information.  Thank you all very much.

Yes it is interesting to someone like me that is not well educated on this subject  I would like to hear more also but according to the brushy mountain post, and I just have to ask, will it kill open brood? I don't know the answer to this but I would speculate that it would on the thoughts that the larvae are still soft and unprotected by their hard outer covering? Isn't this the case with The destructor mite? Soft and unprotected? And if yes then would it not effect the uncapped brood just as it would the varroa destructor?  The honey?  Uncapped honey would almost certinally have some of the oa land on it, but would it be enough to effect the goodness of the honey ? I have read, or think I have read somewhere that honey has some traces of OA naturally along with some vegetables? The ratios. I don't know . Maybe some of you more learned folks can step in?  Thanks , Phillip Hall
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Offline texanbelchers

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Re: Can oxalic acid vaporization be used with honey supers on?
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2018, 12:38:32 am »
OAV does not impact open larva. 

Offline Bush_84

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Re: Can oxalic acid vaporization be used with honey supers on?
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2018, 12:19:44 pm »
From what I have read and experienced oa will not hurt eggs, larvae, adult bees, or queen. I suspect that the reason you aren?t supposed to use oa with supers on is simply because we don?t have data showing it?s ok. My gut feeling is that it probably doesn?t really do anything to the honey but will follow recommendations until there?s some data to show it?s ok
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Also please excuse the typos.  My iPad autocorrect can be brutal.

Offline MikeCinWV

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Re: Can oxalic acid vaporization be used with honey supers on?
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2018, 01:52:04 pm »
When i do oav this time of year the supers are off.  I do 5 treatments 5 days apart and have very good success with that.  I used to do 3 treatments 7 days apart but 5 and 5 seems to work better for me.  Most years 100% over winter success.  Lost 3 of 21 last year due to an illness that prevented me from treating like i usually do.  Oav with the provap 110 is the only treatment I use.  When I had less hives I used the varrox with good results just way slower.
If you need to treat with the supers on put a piece of election sign or cardboard between supers and rest of hive.  Treat and then remove. I have read but can't confirm from experience that there is a point (multiple treatments with supers on and no blocking material) where the oav will give the honey an off flavor.  Best to follow the directions to cya.  Never had any open brood damage from oav.

Offline sc-bee

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Re: Can oxalic acid vaporization be used with honey supers on?
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2018, 12:30:23 am »
About anything you need to know will be here:

https://oxavap.com/information/#qa

Treatments 5 days apart are now not thought to be as effective as once thought. The recommendation is to create a brood break and then treat...
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: Can oxalic acid vaporization be used with honey supers on?
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2018, 12:43:17 am »
About anything you need to know will be here:

https://oxavap.com/information/#qa

Treatments 5 days apart are now not thought to be as effective as once thought. The recommendation is to create a brood break and then treat...

👍🏻
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Can oxalic acid vaporization be used with honey supers on?
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2018, 10:47:08 am »
2sox,  per oxalic acid EPA label.  Emphasis  mine;

USE RESTRICTIONS:
Oxalic Acid Dihydrate applications are for
outdoor use only.
DO NOT use in enclosed overwintering
areas.
Use only in late fall or early spring when little
or no brood is present. Oxalic Acid Dihydrate
might damage bee brood. Oxalic Acid
Dihydrate will not control Varroa mites in
capped brood.
Do not use when honey supers are in place
to prevent contamination of marketable
honey.

Apply only when monitoring indicates
treatment is required. Consult state
guidelines and local extension experts for
monitoring protocols and thresholds for
treatment.
Winter is coming.

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Offline MikeCinWV

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Re: Can oxalic acid vaporization be used with honey supers on?
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2018, 06:09:01 pm »
About anything you need to know will be here:

https://oxavap.com/information/#qa

Treatments 5 days apart are now not thought to be as effective as once thought. The recommendation is to create a brood break and then treat...

I do the 5 treatments 5 days apart in July  (just got done) after supers are pulled (they go back on in 3 weeks or so) and then again starting in September after I pull supers again.  Then I try to get 2 single treatmen's between thanksgiving and mid January when I am naturally brood less in my area.  Been working great for years here.  I agree 5 and 5 not as effective as other methods but does enough to keep mites in check until brood less treatments.

 

anything