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Online Ben Framed

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Do queen bees sting?
« on: May 06, 2020, 02:28:27 pm »
I suppose we all handle queens, some of us more than others.  So far I have not been stung by a queen. I also realize virgin queens can fight it out. Can queens sting once mated? Have you been stung by a queen?

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14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline AR Beekeeper

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2020, 03:26:42 pm »
Yes, queens can sting.  No, I have never been stung by a queen, queens usually don't sting except in a fight with another queen.  Mated queens are capable of stinging, but I have never seen a mated queen in a fight with another queen. 

Offline incognito

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2020, 09:56:17 pm »
Mated queens are capable of stinging, but I have never seen a mated queen in a fight with another queen.
Are they left to starve during a supercedure or do they fight it out with the replacement queen?
Tom

Offline AR Beekeeper

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2020, 10:31:30 pm »
The bees probably allow the old queen to starve, I have seen a mother/daughter together in a colony without any fighting for 5 weeks.  They were both on the same comb or the adjoining comb, both laying, and ignoring each other.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2020, 09:15:03 am »
I have never been stung by a queen and I frequently catch them and hold them in a closed fist and go and get a one handed queen catcher.
I had 2 queens in my observation hive. They layed side by side for about a month and then the old queen disappeared.
Jim Altmiller
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2020, 09:36:06 am »
I have never been stung by a queen and I frequently catch them and hold them in a closed fist and go and get a one handed queen catcher.
I had 2 queens in my observation hive. They layed side by side for about a month and then the old queen disappeared.
Jim Altmiller

Jim I wonder if she naturally died, swarmed, or perhaps the workers finally balled her, or some other reason?
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2020, 03:09:07 pm »
Phil, good question.  Yes, I have been stung twice by a queen.  The pain is minor, nothing like being stung by a guard bee.  The stinger of a queen is barbless, there is a poison sack, however, queens very rarely sting.  I have handled many and been stung only twice.

Something I?ve never seen before today:  anybody please comment?!?!?!?!

Queen cups with royal jelly and no egg or larva.  In detail:  I was taking down a cloak board queen rearing hive.  I raised two batches of queens so time to let this hive rest.  I am in the top deep, excluded from the queen so there are no eggs or larva for on any frame.  I am scraping burr comb and there are two queen cells.  WHAT NO WAY,,,  did I miss a queen cell, is there a queen in the top deep, these are my thoughts.

I look very closely at the queen cells and there is no egg, no larva, just royal jelly??  I would call a queen cup, but I have never seen a queen cup with royal jelly.

Ok on to another hive, a package, that raised another queen so there two queens.  I checked on the hive and there are still two beautiful queens laying in a five frame nuc.  Laying on outer frames, no less.    I am going to have to add more space soon, like this afternoon.

Health to your bees.
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline AR Beekeeper

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2020, 04:36:50 pm »
A queen cell started with an egg from a worker.  The egg police finally found it and removed the larvae.  Same situation is often seen when a colony develops laying workers and they make a last ditch effort. 

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2020, 05:12:42 pm »
Norvel, good of a response as any.  Keep in mind, there is a queen, excluded below in the bottom deep.  The cloak board was removed last week and only in the hive for 2-3 days.

However, I like your response, only possibility that would make sense to me is a worker laid an eggs and egg was removed.  Thank you Norvel.

Not sure how a worker developed her ovaries with a queen below, but I have seen stranger things?

Health to your bees.
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2020, 06:32:31 pm »
Van,
From the studies I have seen, most hives have a few laying workers but their eggs are constantly being policed by the bees. That would explain the eggs above the excluder. Having the cloak board in May have made them desperate enough to try to make a queen from the eggs. It is possible for a laying worker to lay a viable egg to make a queen.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2020, 06:48:24 pm »
I copied this from Michael Bush?a site.
Anarchistic bees" are ever present but usually in small enough numbers to not cause a problem and are simply policed by the workers UNLESS they need drones. The number is always small as long as ovary development is suppressed.

See page 9 of "The Wisdom of the Hive"

"Although worker honey bees cannot mate, they do possess ovaries and can produce viable eggs; hence they do have the potential to have male offspring (in bees and other Hymenoptera, fertilized eggs produce females while unfertilized eggs produce males). It is now clear, however, that this potential is exceedingly rarely realized as long as a colony contains a queen (in queenless colonies, workers eventually lay large numbers of male eggs; see the review in Page and Erickson 1988). One supporting piece of evidence comes from studies of worker ovary development in queenright colonies, which have consistently revealed extremely low levels of development. All studies to date report far fewer than 1 % of workers have ovaries developed sufficiently to lay eggs (reviewed in Ratnieks 1993; see also Visscher 1995a). For example, Ratnieks dissected 10,634 worker bees from 21 colonies and found that only 7 had moderately developed egg (half the size of a completed egg) and that just one had a fully developed egg in her body."
If you do the math, in a normal booming queenright hive of 100,000 bees that's 70 laying workers. In a laying worker hive it's much higher.

"More than half of the bees in laying worker colonies have developed ovaries (Sakagami 1954)..."-- Reproduction by worker honey bees (Apis mellifer L.) R.E. Page Jr and E.H. Erickson Jr. - Behavioral Ecology and Sociobiology August 1988, Volume 23, Issue 2, pp 117-126
"Reproductive honey bee workers have considerable fecundity, with laying workers in queenless colonies each producing c. 19-32 eggs per day (Perepelova, 1928, cited in Ribbands, 1953). "--Evidence for a queen-produced egg-marking pheromone and its use in worker policing in the honey bee FLW Ratnieks - Journal of Apicultural Research Volume 34, Issue 1, 1995 - Taylor & Francis

Michael Bush

I?m still looking for the name for a worker bee laying a viable queen cell.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2020, 07:17:31 pm »
Ok, I found the correct word.
Thelytoky is a particular form of parthenogenesis in which the development of a female individual occurs from an unfertilized egg. Automixis is a form of thelytoky, but there are different kinds of automixis. The kind of automixis relevant here is one in which two haploid products from the same meiosis combine to form a diploid zygote.
It is on Wikipedia under Cape Honey Bees.
It is also in HoneBeeBiology And Beekeeping, chapter 9; queens, queens, queens, page 115.
Jim Altmiller 
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2020, 07:29:03 pm »
Very interesting to say the least. Jim, is this restricted to the Cape honey bee or can this occur with our honey bees found here in America? 
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2020, 07:32:47 pm »
Thank you Jim, much appreciated.  I have studied the cape honey bee only a small amount.  What caught me eye was the cape honey bee destroying hundreds of African honey bee hives, the so called killer bees hives were killed by cape honey bees.  The cape honey bee destroys the African Queen and commenced to lay eggs that developed into cape honeybees[female bees] thus the demise of the African honey bee in the given test area in South Africa.

Health to your bees.
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline AR Beekeeper

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2020, 07:38:37 pm »
Mackensen reported finding the trait in 3 strains of honey bees in the U.S.A. in 1943.

Van; the queen cell with jelly in it would have been at least 4 days old, did the queen have access to that area during the time the egg would have been laid?  If yes, the queen could have laid it, then for some reason the workers removed the larva.  I thought the excluder was in until the day you discovered the cell.

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2020, 07:56:15 pm »
Very interesting to say the least. Jim, is this restricted to the Cape honey bee or can this occur with our honey bees found here in America? 
No but our bees do it very rarely per Honey Bee Biology.
Jim Altmiller
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2020, 08:45:20 pm »
Mackensen reported finding the trait in 3 strains of honey bees in the U.S.A. in 1943.

Van; the queen cell with jelly in it would have been at least 4 days old, did the queen have access to that area during the time the egg would have been laid?  If yes, the queen could have laid it, then for some reason the workers removed the larva.  I thought the excluder was in until the day you discovered the cell.

Norvel, the queen has been excluded for about 5 weeks this day.  In detail:  I located the queen and placed the queen in the lower deep and installed the cloak/QE partition the first week of April.  The lower deep was cloaked for 3 days then a few days later and I raised a batch of queens.  About the 3rd week of April I cloaked again for 3 days and raised 10 more queens which are due to hatch this Sunday.   This day I removed the cloak/QE partition and restored the hive to normal configuration.  Today, 5/7 is when I found the queen cups with royal jelly?  The queen has not had access to the upper deep for 5 weeks, contained by the queen excluder built in the cloak/QE board.
Van
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2020, 10:13:03 pm »
Ok, I found the correct word.
Thelytoky is a particular form of parthenogenesis in which the development of a female individual occurs from an unfertilized egg. Automixis is a form of thelytoky, but there are different kinds of automixis. The kind of automixis relevant here is one in which two haploid products from the same meiosis combine to form a diploid zygote.
It is on Wikipedia under Cape Honey Bees.
It is also in HoneBeeBiology And Beekeeping, chapter 9; queens, queens, queens, page 115.
Jim Altmiller 
That is absolutely fascinating!!  That is so crazy awesome, I'm freaking out!  :grin:  I had no idea it was ever possible for a worker to lay a viable female egg. 
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2020, 11:37:17 pm »
Ok, I found the correct word.
Thelytoky is a particular form of parthenogenesis in which the development of a female individual occurs from an unfertilized egg. Automixis is a form of thelytoky, but there are different kinds of automixis. The kind of automixis relevant here is one in which two haploid products from the same meiosis combine to form a diploid zygote.
It is on Wikipedia under Cape Honey Bees.
It is also in HoneBeeBiology And Beekeeping, chapter 9; queens, queens, queens, page 115.
Jim Altmiller 
That is absolutely fascinating!!  That is so crazy awesome, I'm freaking out!  :grin:  I had no idea it was ever possible for a worker to lay a viable female egg.

I know Member, I have heard somewhere, I think it was here, that some older keepers discussed the possibility of workers moving eggs from one viable hive to a hopelessly queenless hive. I do not remember much about that subject because I did not swallow that theory, and to be totally honest, it is hard for me to swallow this one!  :shocked:  lol

I know Jim is reporting what he was taught from Mr Bush as Mr Bush is reporting what he was taught from others. I confess, I am having a hard time keeping it down after trying to swallow it. lol. I mean no disrespect to anyone. I did not major in science (regretfully). But I do know with God and his creatures, all things are possible. I know he created his creatures to do whatever he choose for them to do. It's just that I am questioning Dr Mackensen. Even still, he may be 100 percent right. As I said I am having a hard time swallowing it. Patience please.  :grin:




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« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 01:12:27 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2020, 11:39:26 pm »
I would like to add, very good discussion.
 :grin:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2020, 01:11:34 am »
I am trying to decipher and digest this shocking revealing information lol. (Shocking to me anyway)  Lets see if I am on track so far as follows.

I always make every effort to be open minded about new information presented. As I said, I know Jim is reporting what he was taught from Mr Bush as Mr Bush is reporting what he was taught from the reports there as brought forward by Jim. From what I am reading in Mr Bushes report, copied and pasted by Jim is all about drones?  Jim added about worker Cape honey bees can sometimes lay fertilized eggs to develop queens by some feat of nature? From there I ask Jim if Cape honey bees are the only ones that exhibit this remarkable feat and added, can bees here in America can also exhibit this phenomenon? His answer as follows. 

Quoting Jim
>No but our bees do it very rarely per Honey Bee Biology.
Jim Altmiller

AR backed this up by stating three of our honey bee strains here in America can also perform this feat quoting Mackensen.

Quoting AR
>Mackensen reported finding the trait in 3 strains of honey bees in the U.S.A. in 1943.

Now I again ask another question. Is Mackensen the only scientist that substitutes this Phenonium about our bees here in America? (three strains that can produce queen bees from worker bees).

And, if this is true, then the old timers were not too far off after all. Could it be possible that instead of workers bringing in eggs from other hives, they were laying them themselves?  Again I ask for patience please.  :grin:




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2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline AR Beekeeper

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2020, 07:41:36 am »
I have read, I can't remember where, that the estimate is that one worker laid egg out of ten thousand will become female.  I think it is accepted that instead of moving the queen's eggs the workers will lay one that accidently becomes female. 

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2020, 02:11:09 pm »
Friends I searched several articles, and found as described (Cape Honeybee) and the Africanized Bee found In the Americas, that could achieve what has been described until the last heading which I will list below. (Thelytoky in a Strain of U.S. Honey Bees (Apis Mellifera L.) | Beesource) ... This explanation listed was done under laboratory setting and was a sort of a forced; an unnatural situation, (if I am understanding this right). This article picks up, (further down), where Jim's copy of Mr Bushes report left off. I confess that this finding is beyond my understanding by a simple quick read. Perhaps some of you science minded folks can decipher and explain in layman's terms?

Thanks, Phillip




LAYING WORKERS. IT HAPPENS. FIX IT. | Bee Culture
Jun 27, 2016 ? But these disguised queens have never mated, consequently they can't lay sperm-fertilized eggs. Very often more than one egg


Laying worker bee - Wikipedia


PerfectBee ? the-science-of-bees ? h...
How Honey Bees Reproduce - PerfectBee


Thelytoky - Wikipedia


Rebel honeybee workers lay eggs when their queen is away | Science News


Dec 4, 2018 ? REBEL WITH A CAUSE When a queen honeybee leaves her colony to start another elsewhere, rebel worker bees ...


Inheritance of thelytoky in the honey bee Apis mellifera capensis | Heredity - Nature
by NC Chapman ? 2015 ? Cited by 14 ? Related articles
Jan 14, 2015 ? In the Cape honey bee it has been argued that thelytoky (th) ... and Texas, USA, where thelytoky has not been reported. ... Thus 1/3 of the offspring of Th,th workers will lose ...



Thelytoky in a Strain of U.S. Honey Bees (Apis Mellifera L.) | Beesource ...
by G DeGrandi-Hoffman ? Cited by 6 ? Related articles
Thelytoky in a Strain of U.S. Honey Bees (Apis Mellifera L.) May, 1991 ? Bee Science. G. DeGrandi-Hoffman, E. H. Erickson Jr., D. Lusby, and E.









2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2020, 03:37:48 pm »
Mr. Ben, Phil, you sure can see through the smoke whereas most of us are blinded by the flames.
I hate using scientific latin words, so I have avoided such as possible.  Chromosome is one word I must use.  The word chromosome means all the dna of an organism stated in the simplest of terms.

I present some facts below:

Apis mellifera capensis, the cape honey bee, Is one of two known organisms capable of thelytoky.  The other known is a wasp.  A female worker lays an unfertilized egg that developes into a female clone[exact copy].  Confusing, you bet.  What happens is the female worker has a single set of chromosomes in the egg as all species,  but this single chromosome doubles in the eggs thus producing an egg that had two sets of chromosomes, just as if the egg was laid by a fertilized queen which lays an egg with one chromosome from mom, and one chromosome from dad.  As stated, this is unique.

Ok, on to the guessing part, NOT FACT.  The reason is believed to be favored by evolution.  Let me explain.  In South Africa where is the origin of the cape honey bee, the weather is notorious for sudden storms being so close to the South Pole.  So many queens were lost to mating flights that workers evolved a mechanism to lay worker bees by means described above.  The storms placed pressure on the bees by eliminating the queen and when ever an organism is stressed, the organism will respond to the stress by what ever the means to survive.

Fact: when an egg receives two complete sets of dna, the egg will develop into a living organism.  In nature, mom presents one copy, dad another copy and the egg developes.  However, dad does not have to donate the dna,  the dna can come from self as in the cape honey bee or another female can present the dna.

For further studies, one can study DOLLY the sheep where scientists took an egg from Dolly, inserted another copy of Dolly?s dna into her egg, so the egg then had two copies of dna.  The egg develop into an exact clone of Dolly.  Dolly acted as the mom and the dad.  I never said I condone such studies.

Van
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 03:54:47 pm by van from Arkansas »
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2020, 04:07:05 pm »
Wow, all of this is really fascinating.  I read/skimmed over all the references you posted, Phillip.  I'll just sort of rewrite all this in my own words both for my understanding and hopefully for yours as well.  As always, someone please correct me if I say something incorrect.  Van was posting as I was typing, so I apologize if this ends up being a retread of what he said.   

So first, a brief review of what normally happens in European honey bees.  All hymenopterans (that's bees, wasps, and ants) are haplodiploid, meaning the way that gender is determined is by how many sets of chromosomes (the actual strands of DNA) the individual's cells have.  Drones are haploid; they have one set of 16 chromosomes.  Workers and queens are diploid; they have 2 sets of 16 chromosomes, or 32 total. 

In the queen's reproductive system, cells undergo a special type of division called meiosis to produce eggs.  The eggs, you see, need to be haploid, so that when combined with a haploid sperm, the resulting bee will be diploid, and therefore female.  However, if the queen does not fertilize an egg, the resulting bee is haploid, and therefore a drone.  Here's a flow chart, if you are a visual learner.   



The worker bees have ovaries just like queens, but they are kept from functioning by the queen pheromone, which suppresses their development.  If a worker bee isn't getting enough queen pheromone, either because the hive is queenless or by happenstance, her ovaries will develop and she will begin producing eggs.  However she has of course never mated, so she can only produce haploid eggs, which will be drones, since she doesn't have any sperm to combine with the eggs to make them diploid. 

However, once in a very great while, something strange will happen.  When a laying worker's reproductive cells are undergoing meiosis to produce eggs, sometimes the haploid proto-eggs (if you will) combine to form diploid eggs.  Since this "accident" creates a diploid egg, it will develop into a female, since in honey bees, being diploid means you are a female.  If the workers feed the larva only royal jelly, she will of course turn into a queen, just like any other female egg/larva would.  The process of an unfertilized egg creating a female is called thelytoky, and this type of thelytoky is called automixis.  Again, here is a flow chart. 



The Cape honey bees are an interesting case study here, because for Cape honey bees, this isn't a once-in-a-great-while occurance; it happens all the time.  Cape honey bees regularly produce queens from laying workers when the hive goes queenless, and this has led them to become parasites of sorts of the African honey bees where their ranges overlap.  The Cape honey bee laying workers will enter nests of African honey bees, and lay eggs which can develop into Cape honey bees queens, thus turning the hive from an African honey bee nest into a Cape honey bee nest.
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2020, 05:15:33 pm »
Member, excellent, just very good explanation.  I tried explaining the same without haploid, diploid, all those genetics latin terms.  Honey bees break a-lot of rules when it comes to genetics.  All mammals and most insects have an X or a Y genetic code to determine sex, make or female.  But not the honeybee, sex is determined by different methods.
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline iddee

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2020, 06:32:12 pm »
Hey, Phil, who was the male that fertilized Mary, for her to have Jesus. Was that not thelytoky?
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2020, 06:37:19 pm »
Hey, Phil, who was the male that fertilized Mary, for her to have Jesus. Was that not thelytoky?
Since we are being overly technical, divine parthenogenesis perhaps, but not thelytoky, as thelytoky by definition creates a female.   
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2020, 07:48:39 pm »
Thanks Mr Van and Member for helping me swallow the hook!   :cheesy:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2020, 07:49:37 pm »
Hey, Phil, who was the male that fertilized Mary, for her to have Jesus. Was that not thelytoky?

What does the Bible say Wally?
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2020, 08:52:35 pm »
Hey, Phil, who was the male that fertilized Mary, for her to have Jesus. Was that not thelytoky?

ID, that was not thelytoky.

Blessings to you Sir.

Van
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2020, 10:59:14 pm »
Quote from: iddee
>Hey, Phil, who was the male that fertilized Mary, for her to have Jesus. Was that not thelytoky?


Wally I think Member got it right. Devine
The Bible says
Matthew 1:18-25 King James Version
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.




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« Last Edit: May 09, 2020, 01:45:32 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2020, 01:30:36 am »
This has been interesting and I think each of you for responding and the education about queens and thelytoky. I Especially thank each of you for your patience as well. There are some "heavy hitters" that responded for whom I appreciate.

Now back to the original question lol.

Quoting Mr Van.
>Yes, I have been stung twice by a queen.  The pain is minor, nothing like being stung by a guard bee.  The stinger of a queen is barbless, there is a poison sack, however, queens very rarely sting.  I have handled many and been stung only twice.

Thank you Mr Van, got it. They can, will, and do. Though rarely.

May I add any further debate is welcome as far as I am concerned. For my part, I am satisfied.




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« Last Edit: May 09, 2020, 01:51:13 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Michael Bush

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Re: Do queen bees sting?
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2020, 02:02:06 pm »
I've been handling queens for the last 46 years.  I've never been stung by a queen.  Jay Smith on queens stinging:

"Again the nature of the queen and the worker is entirely different. The queen will never sting a human being, while if you think the workers will not, you come with me. As stated, a queen will never sting anything but a rival queen. I might qualify that statement by saying a queen never stings anything but a queen, or what she thinks is a queen. I was stung by a queen once but I insist it was a case of mistaken identity, for she thought I was a queen. It happened thus: I had been requeening some colonies and in removing the old queens I killed them by pinching them between my thumb and finger. I had wiped my thumb and finger on my trouser leg. A virgin queen circled me a few times probably to adjust her bomb sights then made a pin-point landing on the spot where I had wiped my thumb and finger, and planted her sting in my leg. Yes, she thought I was a queen. While greatly appreciating the compliment, I would much prefer she would show her appreciation in a less militant manner. "--Jay Smith, Better Queens
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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