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Author Topic: Gambling with swapping queens and catching an emerging queen.  (Read 112 times)

Online .30WCF

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Let?s just say my style is unconventional. I kind of blur the lines between backyard and commercial and toss in a little experimental now and then. I?ve probably rubbed a few here the wrong way, asking a question, then taking your experienced advise and tossing it out the window. I?ve probably ignored some sound advise, and probably done a few things wrong and a few thing right. But sometimes things just don?t make sense to me and my way of thinking.
  Sometimes I hear what people say, pick a topic ( doesn?t have to be beekeeping), and it just seems like old wives tales, or maybe things that used to be true but just aren?t anymore. Remember when the world was flat? Remember when you couldn?t eat medium cooked pork for fear of Trichinellosis?
Got in an debate at work while grilling out with an older fellow about how done the pork had to be. Ended up he ate dried out pork and I ate juicy yummy pork. Although, it was probably true when he was a kid, modern day commercial meat has changed. I do raise a pig from time to time and I cook that more carefully, but still not until it?s shoe leather. I also thaw whole cuts of meat and grind it and refreeze it if I wasn?t able to process a game animal fully for some reason.
  Anyway, those are just a couple examples of things that either turned out to not be true, but common belief, or things that actually were true but are not anymore for the most part, or it just depends on how you thaw the meat.
  As I study beekeeping I see that the people with different financial interests care for their bees differently. Hobbyist take much more time and are doting over them, going out of the way to make sure they are taken care of. No fault there, but it has the potential to teach the apprentice unnecessary things, or as time passes, the apprentice?s apprentice will have been taught that it is truth. The commercial folks don?t have the time, can afford a few more colony losses because they have the resources to rebuild, but in the end the success of their bees is critical to them.
  I have always been handy and take on tasks that average folks wouldn?t dream of. My present occupation is in electrical, construction, demolition, and maintenance. I look at the tangible world and see nothing that I can?t fix. Even if our crew screws something up, it?s up to me to get the customer what they want. I can pull all that wire out, I can rebuild a control panel, cut out, grind away or rip out the whole foundation and start over. Although these things are at a loss, I don?t see an obstacle and say there isn?t a way around, over, under it through it.
  So when I hear people like Michael Palmer say, all they care about is a laying queen, I see the logic. So, I tried it, and it seems to be working for me. I?ve moved a few queens around as I needed brood in a queenless hive here and there. Just picked them up and dropped them right in another hive. A banked queen is different.
  I killed 3 of my 5 queens this month with a formic pro treatment and the double deep nuc with a marked queen that was getting the OA got put in a 10 frame and set right on top one of the queenless hives. Two weeks later she?s still there.
  The others were left to make their own queens. One has a queen now and the other has no brood and no eggs. I found plenty of emerged queen cells today and side chewed cells, but couldn?t find the queen. No worries. Maybe she will be back in there this weekend. If not, there is a way around, over, under or through it.
  One hive I cut a capped cell out of and stuck in another frame in a different hive last week. When I looked today it had that cell?s queen emerging right when when I pulled the frame. The cap was cut open and pulsing up and down.  I took the queen clip and pinched the cell off the frame and set it down. As I got deeper into the boxes, I found eggs, no larvae, just eggs. Then, a new queen that must have returned in the last day or two. When I went back to the queen clip minutes later there was a new queen crawling around in there with a few nurse bees. She was a beauty. But I didn?t need her. I suspect the last hive will have a queen return to lay within days. I probably overlooked her as there were many uncapped cells and many side chewed cells.
  All I?m saying is keep an open mind and think about why your doing what you are doing. There are many methods that will work. Sometimes you can do it all right and it will all go wrong. Sometimes you just think you did it right.
  There are many examples in the bee world or any other world. If you?re in the hunting world, sooner or later someone will tell you that a .30-06 or a .270 or a .30-30 or whatever is not a viable hunting round. I just have to wonder about their marksmanship and not get engaged in that conversation.
  We can all have a successful season and do it in different ways. Just make sure it?s sunny and 60 plus if you open your hive .
I won?t even talk about the natural comb they built from the bottom of a blank frame up.
  I appreciate everyone?s input and opinions on this site. Diversity is how we grow. I don?t mean to offend anyone, and nobody wants to be told they are wrong. I?m sure someone will disagree with me and I?ll sit in my chair and poke my lip out.
  Thank you all for sharing your experiences so we can each see what camp we should lean towards.






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« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 10:13:37 pm by .30WCF »

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Gambling with swapping queens and catching an emerging queen.
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2021, 02:56:35 am »
Well said.

I learned Elk hunting via long range. I spent 30 yrs behind a 300 win mag (successfully). ... I scoffed at those who hunted "Big-Game" country with a .243 (or a .270, or an '06 etc) ... until I got a really good .243, and some additional knowledge from an old man ... and then I understood. ...

... later, it blew my mind when I discovered that you could Elk with a bow. Who knew?

It's the same with bees - there are so many right answers - and yet, for those that haven't learned "your way", it's wrong - of course. The more you know - the more "right answers" there are.

Cheers!
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline cao

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Re: Gambling with swapping queens and catching an emerging queen.
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2021, 03:14:53 am »
I say you don't learn if you don't try.  I hope I have the same success you have had with your queens.  I checked on a hive the other day.  On the third frame pulled was a queen cell that was hatched.  The next two frames both had capped queen cells.  So I started making up mating nucs.  As I was going along I kept hearing a queen piping and eventually found one crawling around on another queen cell.  So I put her in a queen clip and kept going through the hive, making splits with the queen cells that I found.  On of the queen cells got a little torn on the end so I opened it up a bit and found a live queen ready to come out.  She was put in a clip.  After all was said and done, I ended up with 6 mating nucs plus the original hive.  And 2 queens in clips.  I had a couple of hives that I checked on a couple days earlier that I couldn't find any signs of a queen.  So I popped there tops and set the queen clips on top of the hives to see how they would react.  There was no fighting so after about 5 minutes I released the queens.  Hopefully all will work out with them.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Gambling with swapping queens and catching an emerging queen.
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2021, 03:55:49 am »
Good post with open minded thoughts. Agreed as far some differences in pros and hobbyists. Pros have to do it right to survive. It pays to listen with open minded thinking to these folks. There are some here at beemaster. It?s kind and generous of them to (attempt), to guide us along our merry beekeeping way 🐝 with their help sharing lifetimes of knowledge, sometimes generations of knowledge! Beemaster is a fun place as many of us are hobbyist, learning together I suppose. The pros understand this, which has been my observation. It?s good that these pros chime in for guidance, (patiently), most of the time. 😊, 

Thinking outside the box, experimental accomplishments as well as mistakes are a part of learning and growing.  😊  Keep posting your thoughts and ideas. Not everyone agrees on everything and it is healthy to hear different sides of thoughts and points of view in my opinion. An opposition opinion can sometimes lead to healthy discussion and common sense learning and knowledge.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 04:17:30 am by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Online .30WCF

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Re: Gambling with swapping queens and catching an emerging queen.
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2021, 07:30:27 pm »
I say you don't learn if you don't try.  I hope I have the same success you have had with your queens.  I checked on a hive the other day.  On the third frame pulled was a queen cell that was hatched.  The next two frames both had capped queen cells.  So I started making up mating nucs.  As I was going along I kept hearing a queen piping and eventually found one crawling around on another queen cell.  So I put her in a queen clip and kept going through the hive, making splits with the queen cells that I found.  On of the queen cells got a little torn on the end so I opened it up a bit and found a live queen ready to come out.  She was put in a clip.  After all was said and done, I ended up with 6 mating nucs plus the original hive.  And 2 queens in clips.  I had a couple of hives that I checked on a couple days earlier that I couldn't find any signs of a queen.  So I popped there tops and set the queen clips on top of the hives to see how they would react.  There was no fighting so after about 5 minutes I released the queens.  Hopefully all will work out with them.
Any update on those mating nucs?


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Online .30WCF

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Re: Gambling with swapping queens and catching an emerging queen.
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2021, 07:32:48 pm »
Well said.

I learned Elk hunting via long range. I spent 30 yrs behind a 300 win mag (successfully). ... I scoffed at those who hunted "Big-Game" country with a .243 (or a .270, or an '06 etc) ... until I got a really good .243, and some additional knowledge from an old man ... and then I understood. ...

... later, it blew my mind when I discovered that you could Elk with a bow. Who knew?

It's the same with bees - there are so many right answers - and yet, for those that haven't learned "your way", it's wrong - of course. The more you know - the more "right answers" there are.

Cheers!
I?ve been toting a 7mm-08 around for elk. I?ve not found the occasion to pull the trigger on one yet though. I?m thinking 300 yds maybe 350. Could have shot a handful of cows, but I have only been applying for bull tags.


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