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Author Topic: Ghost Guns  (Read 1546 times)

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #60 on: April 16, 2021, 06:55:48 pm »
Quote
I must run with a bad crowd cause I know lots with some kind of record that I don't see as dangerous enough to kill them over.
I believe cops could be much more useful then just revenue earners.

There are a lot of people who commit crimes and are not dangerous.  In the case of this guy, he was only 20, had already committed 2 gun crimes that we know of, one of them violent, and twice tried to run from police.  That doesn't mean the cop was right in shooting him, but it is an explanation for their reaction to him. 

I laughed over your pulled over comment.  It has happened to me.  The really funny one was when I made a right turn and turned partially into the bike lane.  It was the middle of the night and maybe the cop thought I'd been drinking or something.  Once convinced I was sober and on my way home, he asked me if the truck belonged to my husband.  I smiled the dumb blonde smile and said "Yes, yes it does.".  He warned me to be careful driving that big ole truck and sent me on my way. 
Our little town used to be a notorious speed trap. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #61 on: April 16, 2021, 07:03:08 pm »
Either way lie or untrue, both mean wrong.  I apologize for those two sentences but stick to my  over all portrayal of what I wrote.  You may write with the intention of calling out what might be a mistake but when you do it I read it as being confronted as wrong and so a liar.

I was a liar on two sentences of mine and figure it fair this time and admit it on that part.  I do not intentionally lie ever.
Cheers
gww

I open heartily accept your apology. Adding: I over look where you misunderstand me. I suppose we can just agree to disagree of the misunderstanding part? 🙂Who knows someday we may see politics the same... Wouldn't that be a shocker? lol
:shocked:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline gww

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #62 on: April 16, 2021, 08:27:38 pm »
Kathy
You made me laugh also.  I grew up in a town that says it has the same population today though I know there probably are more people living in the outskirts cause you can't drive the gravel roads and only see a house every half mile or more.

We had two cops when I was growing up and now the town probably has 6 or 8.  If I got caught with a beer I was made to pour it out or if I got to crazy in a car with no muffler they might tell me to get out of town.  Now they are going to give tickets and take their money.  Policing has changed some.

I live near a town that has not had a cop except here and there part time over the last 50 years.  I was disappointed that they put in the paper last year that they had just bought a cop car.  I like it better when we don't have a cop around.

My daughter got a ticket from a cop who lives on the same road as me but a few miles out and I called him and told him he was going to cost me three hundred bucks and he let her off.  He did make her cry though.  He did tell me his wife yelled at him too.  I told him I speed all the time but just talking to her would have worked.  He did let me off later when I was moving on pretty good.  Still I wasn't hurting anyone and was a mile from my house.  I like it better when they are not around cause even though I am not perfect, I don't usually do things that hurt anyone and don't like being questioned.  I am thankful when questioned of those that do not use every opportunity to look good by how much money they bring in.

You mention speed trap.  There are towns that policing bring in the majority of their budget.  That was one of the problems in Ferguson Mo beside the black kid that got killed when they protested.  I do not think it is too fair for me to judge how good I get by compared to somebody with a concrete yard.  I could beat my wife and kids and nobody would ever know and I don't have cops continually cruising by my house 24/7.  I can go in my back yard and shoot at things all day long.  No where near like living in a flat where everyone can hear everything that goes on.  I think it is hard for me to have a high moral standing when in my mind I would probably not survive that type of atmosphere.
We probably commit all kinds of things that somebody would look at as a crime if they could see what we do.  No, I am not big on beating my wife but may have poured oil along a fence at some point in my life to kill some grass or settle some dust. 

I can see other people pointing a finger at how something I might be doing is so wrong even though I know what is normal for here and just think of a lot of people living in one place with their own ideal of right and wrong and how that would be.  Seems like a recipe for conflict.  Every fist fight I ever got in in my life there were other people around. :cheesy:

The cop that just got shot going after a shooter deserves praise.  Cops like the one depicted in the movie les miserables that can't exercise humane discretion or that are just bullies need to be shut down and stripped of any authority.   I admit to it being a hard job that I could not do well myself.  However, I would not hire me for that job either.
You probably drive your big ole truck better then I drive mine.  I don't judge distance worth a crap.
Cheers
gww
ps My other pet peeve.  I would never move to a location that was part of a home owners association.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #63 on: April 16, 2021, 09:53:06 pm »
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My other pet peeve.  I would never move to a location that was part of a home owners association.

Neither would I!

I think that people ought to be left to their own as long as they are not hurting others.  That is the libertarian leaning in me.  That said, the more people cram together the more they want and even need rules to follow.  Like you, I can shoot on my property, and do other things that, law or not, would not be acceptable in town.  I choose not to live in town.

No matter our choice of living, armed robbery, resisting arrest, etc. would not be OK. 

I am not a fan of the police state that we seem to now have but I see what is happening in Portland as they have ended the gun/gang enforcement team, and refuse to arrest the rioters.  Yup, Portland is still having "mostly peaceful protests" every night.  If people are going to live in close quarters there have to be some agreed-upon rules and some enforcement of those rules. 

What we don't have, and what I think is society ending, is equal enforcement under the law.  There are people who were arrested for the capital riot that have been in jail for months.  Some of them have only been charged with non-violent things like tresspassing. The capitol officer who shot the unarmed woman will not be charged and unlike the police who shoot someone, he/she has not been named.

 The capital is not holy.  It is a federal building.  People here are assaulting and trying to burn down federal buildings nightly and assulting federal officers.  They are not even being arrested.  Some of the buildings have been set on fire with people in them.  Nothing...And if by some miracle they are arrested, they are immediately bailed and are back at it the next night.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #64 on: April 17, 2021, 09:21:13 am »
Another group that does really well both in assimilation and economically, is black people coming from Africa.  It's not as large a group, but they become citizens at a high rate, earn well, become or are fluent in English and integrate into American life. 
While it doesn't matter where they come from the racist part occurs when this affluent black person drives through a predominately white affluent neighborhood.
 They are looked at as though they don't belong.  This profiling is rampart in law enforcement.  Local law enforcement should not be defunded they should be disarmed.  Law enforcement should require people skills not military skills.  You don't service the community with a gun.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2021, 09:33:51 am »
It?s sad that some folks can only see black and white as you and Ace, but can not read and understand what is written in black and white without attempting to twist it for bad for your own gratification. Shame
Phil you are quick to pass shame on someone else because you read their words and fail to understand their meaning.  You constantly exhibit Trumpism disease.  Being guilty of something  and then blame the guilt on someone else.  This a real problem in our country.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #66 on: April 17, 2021, 09:39:03 am »
Why did Obama insist he was black when pointing out that he was 1/2 white should have been an advantage in a racist country?
A man having all the external features of a black man is going to claim he is white?  You say things that lead me to believe your dropping acid.
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #67 on: April 17, 2021, 10:20:30 am »
> Local law enforcement should not be defunded they should be disarmed.  Law enforcement should require people skills not military skills.  You don't service the community with a gun.


Good idea Ace. Starting in your neighborhood. When this is accomplished, make sure All the gangs, thugs, and lawbreakers, such as MS13 realize the party is on in your area! Maybe you along with the rest of your woke buddies can get together and have a huge billboard placed leading into your neighborhood saying as much.

"Hail hail gangs are all welcome here. Police are disarmed as well as the citizens, complements of Ace Bird and his woke friends on the left. You are safe here in your unlawfulness. But please be respectful. We are your friends."   

 :cheesy:

> Phil you are quick to pass shame on someone else because you read their words and fail to understand their meaning.  You constantly exhibit Trumpism disease.  Being guilty of something  and then blame the guilt on someone else.  This a real problem in our country.

There you go again, mr Divider, mr confusion promoter. You can plainly read that gww and I have made amends. Even if it means we agree to disagree on some stances. Yet instead of building on this and looking at us in an openminded way, promoting bipartisanship, you chose to throw salt and burn BOTH of us with your baiting.
Perhaps you realize we have some similarities as well as some disagreements as politics go. So you seek to divide just like your leaders. This is a real problem in this country. No wonder our country is so divided. Notice I didn't say shame but maybe I should; but there again, some folks have none. 

As far as Mr Trump, I have reminded you before he is out of office and gone from Washington, gone from youtube, Facebook, Twitter etc and so on. We on the right have been very respectful here to your choice of President. We realize we are all Americans and wish the best for America no matter our views. If your man would have been any count, he deserved that respect. Also not wanting to hurt your feeling, and considering your man is new to being a President, we, or I have been slow to criticize but now that his true feathers have been shown and the leopards spots have been reviled, hearing the hyaena cackle, all that is about to change, this dummy (and his administration) you have elected don't have a clue!!  That is a shame for all of we Americans. I see you did not respond to lumber and energy. I was correct in thinking you have no ground to stand on to defend you incompetent man. 

Any other Joe might have been a better choice. Even poor ole dumb Joe Dirt!  :tongue: :cheesy:  love you Ace.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 10:43:16 am by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2021, 12:52:39 pm »
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While it doesn't matter where they come from the racist part occurs when this affluent black person drives through a predominately white affluent neighborhood.

Maybe, but take my little town.  At the time I was pulled over we had 0 black families anywhere around.  Asian, Persian, Hispanic, but no black families.  If the police had seen someone black driving a truck around town in the middle of the night, they might have wondered who this person was and what they were doing.  Should they pull them over?  Probably not unless they turn into the bike lane or something, but should they watch to see what that person was doing?  I think they should.  We now have a number of black families in our town, so keeping an eye on someone because they are black would be wrong.

I live on a dead end road.  An odd looking guy was wandering up and down the road.  He wasn't doing anything, but he didn't belong and something about it was just wrong.  I called the Sherriff and they came out and took him away.  Turned out he was mentally ill, had taken the bus out our way, and was just wandering.  They took him back the Portland.  He was white.  He didn't belong where he was. 

You really want police disarmed?  283 officers were shot in 2020. 44 of them died.  Maybe they should have had better people skills?

Quote
A man having all the external features of a black man is going to claim he is white?  You say things that lead me to believe your dropping acid.

Probably would not have worked for him  :grin: but look how many, including him, emphasize the black part of their heritage or pretend to be black.  Can't be a net negative, can it?  I didn't know that Eric Holder was black until someone made a point of it.  I didn't know that Harris ID'd as black until the press made a point of it.  Much of the country is brown and I don't think most of us give it much thought.

There is an advantage to some that we focus on race though.  You can't have a united country when you are intentionally dividing people into tribes and pitting tribes against each other.  It is to the advantage of the left that the tribes war.  They have nothing to offer a united country.




They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #69 on: April 18, 2021, 09:39:32 am »
Good idea Ace. Starting in your neighborhood. When this is accomplished, make sure All the gangs, thugs, and lawbreakers, such as MS13 realize the party is on in your area!
This group of criminals should be dealt with by SWAT teams or specialized law enforcement not the average cop some of which don't have a college education. But they do have an NRA merit badge and a gun.
I live in a predominantly white neighborhood.  Cops don't patrol white neighborhoods. They have to be called in.  If you live in a white neighborhood do you feel secure when a cop is call in with his gun drawn?  It is going to take 10-15 minutes to drive here.  Maybe longer if he happens to be doing something else.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #70 on: April 18, 2021, 09:43:24 am »
Maybe, but take my little town.  At the time I was pulled over we had 0 black families anywhere around.  Asian, Persian, Hispanic, but no black families.  If the police had seen someone black driving a truck around town in the middle of the night, they might have wondered who this person was and what they were doing.  Should they pull them over?  Probably not unless they turn into the bike lane or something, but should they watch to see what that person was doing?  I think they should.
Do you realize your statement means you are a racist?  Probably not.
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #71 on: April 18, 2021, 10:09:31 am »
Good idea Ace. Starting in your neighborhood. When this is accomplished, make sure All the gangs, thugs, and lawbreakers, such as MS13 realize the party is on in your area!
This group of criminals should be dealt with by SWAT teams or specialized law enforcement not the average cop some of which don't have a college education. But they do have an NRA merit badge and a gun.
I live in a predominantly white neighborhood.  Cops don't patrol white neighborhoods. They have to be called in.  If you live in a white neighborhood do you feel secure when a cop is call in with his gun drawn?  It is going to take 10-15 minutes to drive here.  Maybe longer if he happens to be doing something else.

Right :oops: you mean like the most professional swat team ever assembled by the FBI which ''accidentally'', shot and killed the little innocent mother which was holding her infant baby in her arms when they blew her away? A government swat team as your portray? No thank you!!! The mountian people that bothered no one? Folks who just wanted to live their life in peace and be left alone in a remote place in Montana a few years ago?

Do you think these elite college educated professionals did a good job? Are you for real or just clowning? Who knows what would happen if these pros were finally turned loose in neighborhoods such as yours with all the hate that is being spewed by leftists. No thank you. Was you educated in Russia or China?   :tongue: :cheesy:




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« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 11:12:48 am by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #72 on: April 18, 2021, 01:54:55 pm »
Quote
Do you realize your statement means you are a racist?  Probably not.

You and I have a different background, but even you have been told that "If you see something, say something". Your way of thinking was what allowed Nidal Hasan to shoot up an Army base. 

My training tells me that if something is out of place, it should be investigated.  Logic should always be the motivator, not fear or emotion. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2021, 10:49:17 am »
Are these ghost guns usually used to commit crimes?
The numbers are quit high 1:3
At what point does a republican stop blocking people who are looking for a solution and come up with a solution themselves?  What is the point of having them in congress?  They have been doing nothing for the better part of my life.
1:3 ? I highly doubt that.  Please state your credible source.

It is not illegal to manufacture your own firearm!  You are required to put a serial number on it, at which point it is no longer a so-called ghost gun, but a legal, serialized firearm.
Failure to put a serial number on a self-made firearm is already a crime.
Winter is coming.

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Offline paus

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2021, 03:02:14 pm »
We have the solution in the Laws already on the books.  This is like a person that is sick and goes to the DR. and either does not take the Dr's prescription  or does not get it filled, or does not take it at all, or takes the medicine incorrectly.  Then the blame for the sickness is laid on someone that is not sick.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 03:48:33 pm by paus »

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #75 on: May 10, 2021, 03:03:50 pm »
We have the solution in the Laws already on the books.  This is like a person that is sick and goes to the DR. and either does not take the Dr's prescription  or does not get it filled, or does take it at all, or takes the medicine incorrectly.  Then the blame for the sickness is laid on someone that is not sick.

Well said.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Acebird

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #76 on: May 11, 2021, 09:08:31 am »
It is not illegal to manufacture your own firearm!  You are required to put a serial number on it, at which point it is no longer a so-called ghost gun, but a legal, serialized firearm.
If the kits that you buy on the internet had a traceable serial number and all you did was to assemble the kit I would see that as legal and less of a problem.  Who polices the self manufacture of your own firearms such that they get a serial number? NRA, ATF?  They are called ghost guns because they do not have traceable serial numbers.
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Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #77 on: May 11, 2021, 12:27:35 pm »
It is not illegal to manufacture your own firearm!  You are required to put a serial number on it, at which point it is no longer a so-called ghost gun, but a legal, serialized firearm.
If the kits that you buy on the internet had a traceable serial number and all you did was to assemble the kit I would see that as legal and less of a problem.  Who polices the self manufacture of your own firearms such that they get a serial number? NRA, ATF?  They are called ghost guns because they do not have traceable serial numbers.
These are not child's kits that you merely assemble like some toy.  They are receivers machined to 80% completion.  Because they are incomplete, they are not firearms and don't require SN at that point.  They buyer must finish the rest of the machining to make it a receiver, install the rest of the parts that make it functional, and ONLY THEN is it a 'firearm under law, which must now have a serial number permanently inscribed.  Failure to inscribe a serial number is a federal crime. It is BTAFE's responsibility to enforce that.  If you get caught with no serial number, they're the ones that you have to deal with.

It requires some level of technical skill and time to finish these parts into a firearm, as well as machine tools such as a metal lathe and drill press, and the knowledge to use them accurately.  Your average criminal ain't gonna go through all this for an "untraceable ghost gun" ( an ignorant phrase coined by ignorant, fearful Kalifornia demoRats), when it would be much, much easier and simpler to just break into your house, steal your wife's .22 rifle and, possibly but probably not, grind off the serial number before using it to go rob Circle K.  Think about it!

The same serial number law applies if you were to go buy the raw steel or aluminum and machine the parts from scratch.  Totally legal, as long as you follow the law.

Winter is coming.

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #78 on: May 12, 2021, 09:24:29 am »
They are receivers machined to 80% completion.  Because they are incomplete, they are not firearms and don't require SN at that point.
That is what is known as a loop hole.  All the heavy machining and metal processing is done so the average adult can finish it.  For that matter even a child could do it.  So explain to me why the manufacturer of the 80% complete receiver can not put the serial number on the gun and keep records to who it was sold to.  They are clearly a weapon manufacturer.  Most mass shooting are done by someone that has nothing to lose so are they really going to worry about serial numbers?  The purpose of the serial number is to trace the weapon and prove guilt in a court of law.  Allowing this loop hole puts a road block in law enforcement.  No other reason for it.
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Offline Hops Brewster

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« Reply #79 on: May 12, 2021, 11:13:37 am »
Anything stamped on an 80% part is going to get machined off in the finishing process!  It's that simple.  Not to mention,   BY LAW.. the SN needs to be stamped on a firearm.  That 80% part is only a lump of metal, not a receiver/firearm.

There are no special permissions required for any law-abiding US citizen from manufacturing their own firearms!  "Traceabilty" is a myth created by the anti-liberty fear mongers.  Ask your neighbor the cop if he can trace a gun and he will laugh in your face.

The "common sense" gun laws that the leftists keep crying for are already in place.  They know they don't work!, but they keep demanding more restrictions, which they know won't work. 

A loophole is simply a legal activity. Liberty is all loopholes.  Some jack-wagon doesn't like what another person is doing with their liberty, so they call on congress-critters to make a law to 'close the loophole', thereby restricting the liberty of everyone, including YOU.
I think we should close the loophole on loophole-closing.  Restrict the ability of jack-wagons to restrict the liberty of people just because the are senselessly terrified in their ignorance of what they refuse to understand.
Winter is coming.

I can't say I hate the government, but I am proudly distrustful of them.