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Author Topic: Ghost Guns  (Read 1518 times)

Offline salvo

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Ghost Guns
« on: April 08, 2021, 09:46:11 am »
Hi Folks,

Legislation or Executive Order coming soon.

Is this Ghost Gun issue a Solution in search of a Problem? Are these ghost guns usually used to commit crimes? Who's using all these ghost guns to commit crimes?

What in heyoh IS a ghost gun anyway? See here:

https://www.ghostgunlaws.com/

Then see here:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-actions-gun-violence

Anybody out there own a ghost gun?  DO NOT ANSWER THAT. THEY'RE WATCHING!

Sal
It's not paranoia when they're really after you.
Salvo

Online Acebird

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2021, 08:41:21 am »
Are these ghost guns usually used to commit crimes?
The numbers are quit high 1:3
At what point does a republican stop blocking people who are looking for a solution and come up with a solution themselves?  What is the point of having them in congress?  They have been doing nothing for the better part of my life.
Brian Cardinal
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2021, 10:17:09 am »
Are these ghost guns usually used to commit crimes?
The numbers are quit high 1:3
At what point does a republican stop blocking people who are looking for a solution and come up with a solution themselves?  What is the point of having them in congress?  They have been doing nothing for the better part of my life.

Ace the Constitution is not just for the benefit any political party. In fact when the Constitution was written there was no Republican Party. It is for the benefit of America and all Americans. You of all people should know this. Wasn't you and your family required to take the citizenship test when you applied for citizenship?

Just one of the requirements necessary to become a citizen here as follows.


Allegiance to the United States

In order to become a U.S. citizen, you must demonstrate an "attachment" to the U.S. Constitution. "Attachment" simply means that you believe, support, and are willing to defend the principles of the U.S. Constitution by accepting the democratic process and promising to obey the law.

How do you demonstrate this "attachment"? You'll attend a public "swearing in" ceremony, where you and other naturalization applicants will recite the Oath of Allegiance, the final step of the naturalization process.

During the ceremony, you'll be asked to make sure that you understand the following:

You're taking the Oath of Allegiance voluntarily.
You're giving your full allegiance to the United States by renouncing your allegiance to all other countries where you claim citizenship.
You accept all the responsibilities of a U.S. citizen ? including military and civil service if necessary (see above) ? and have no intention of not fulfilling these duties.
You must complete this last step before you can become a U.S. citizen.

The rest can be found here.
https://www.boundless.com/immigration-resources/u-s-citizenship-requirements/
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 11:54:30 am by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Online Acebird

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2021, 08:16:43 am »
Phil, The constitution makes no comment that restrictions can't be place on weapons, armament, bombs or chemical agents to curb the deaths of its citizens due to criminal activity.
I'll put you on the spot Phil, what is your solution as a republican that will ensure the safety of law abiding citizens.  I am all ears.
Brian Cardinal
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2021, 11:36:27 am »
Phil, The constitution makes no comment that restrictions can't be place on weapons, armament, bombs or chemical agents to curb the deaths of its citizens due to criminal activity.
I'll put you on the spot Phil, what is your solution as a republican that will ensure the safety of law abiding citizens.  I am all ears.

Thanks for your question Brian. First of all I do not consider myself a Republican as much as I consider our representatives who represent the Constitution. If your party were to suddenly, miraculously, clean up its act and follow The Constitution, I would be happy to lean your way instead of the other party which seems to be more Constitutionally minded. It is all about the Constitution.

> I'll put you on the spot Phil, what is your solution as a republican that will ensure the safety of law abiding citizens.  I am all ears.

It's simple Brian.  Dissolve or water down the second amendment. Take every capable modern firearm from every freeborn, law-abiding, American Citizen, such as the basic AR, Leaving its citizens at the mercy of radicle groups, extremest, building burners, murderers, thugs, thieves, crooks, outlaws of every type and description etc. Which by the way, will be well armed illegally with these these basic style weapons. Have our lame brain along with some corrupt politicians open our borders, devolve our military, or at least water it down, fire as many patriotic generals as possible. Leaving our good citizens and our country unable to protect themselves or their families in case of any of the above but even more importantly, any future threat foreign invasion, which is never beyond the realm of possibility no matter how slim or large the possibilities may be; then, dare those ridiculous citizens to say anything about it. After all, what did the founders of this country know anyway?

I am going to put you on the spot. What did your country of origin, Germany do about gun control just prior to WWII? What was their gun control plan. Or should we call it The People Control Plan? Hum; How did that work out for its citizens. In the beginning, (Jews and Christians)?
In the end, all its citizens and the world? I would have thought you out of all people would be more appreciative of the Constitution, and the second amendment more than anyone else?   
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 12:54:59 pm by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline paus

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2021, 01:08:09 pm »
Well stated .  I have a fried from Mexico and he told me he can buy AK47 from the cartel for 175$.  These guns are wornout but they can spray bullets at an unbelievable rate.  I wonder if selling this trash to dope dealers, is just another way to add profit to the coyotes.  The AK47 is in the same class as the so called "ghost guns".  Check it out, "How many cases have been solved by Law Enforcement" using the serial numbers on a gun, other than on TV.

Online Acebird

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2021, 10:06:13 am »

It's simple Brian.  Dissolve or water down the second amendment. Take every capable modern firearm from every freeborn, law-abiding, American Citizen, such as the basic AR, Leaving its citizens at the mercy of radicle groups, extremest, building burners, murderers, thugs, thieves, crooks, outlaws of every type and description etc.
It appears the numbers go the other way.
https://www.bestplaces.net/crime/?city1=53651000&city2=51253000
The best way to lose your freedoms is to not address a problem.  I am not against the AR 15 but I see a need to address the unlawful use of it.  Spitting out words of a 200+ year old document that is outdated and left to interpretation is not the solution.  Congress refuses to address the problem at the boarder so it will be dealt with by executive order according to who the voters put in office.  The 200+ year old document is no help for the problems the country faces today.  What paragraph addresses a pandemic?
It appears the lame brain is way out producing the past idiot who can take credit for many of the newer problems we are experiencing.  Including at the boarder.
Brian Cardinal
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Online sawdstmakr

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2021, 10:26:35 am »
Brian,
That 200 year old document is what made this country great. It is the politicians and judges that do not follow it that has caused 90 percent of the problems that we have today.
Every one of them has sworn to protect and defend it when sworn in but almost every one of them ignore that oath.
Jim Altmiller

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2021, 11:24:44 am »
> The best way to lose your freedoms is to not address a problem.

Well said Brian, the problem is many folks do not seem to see where the problem lies.

> The 200+ year old document is no help for the problems the country faces today.

Brian is that what your family told the officials when you swore an oath to America and its Constitution as described in reply 2 when you immigrated here attempting to become citizens? Before or after taking the loyalty test and swearing an oath to America and its Constitution? I doubt these thoughts, feelings, and opinions were made known?

Immigrants are taken at there word and accepted as Americans citizens, after and only after taking that oath to uphold the constitution, (that old document). Being you are a full American Citizen, where do your loyalties lie if not to that old document, The Constitution?





                                                                                                                                                                                .
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 12:41:38 pm by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2021, 11:38:05 am »
Brian,
That 200 year old document is what made this country great. It is the politicians and judges that do not follow it that has caused 90 percent of the problems that we have today.
Every one of them has sworn to protect and defend it when sworn in but almost every one of them ignore that oath.
Jim Altmiller

I agree Jim
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline salvo

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2021, 11:57:55 am »
Hi Folks,

We will take America without firing a shot ... we will bury you!

We can?t expect the American people to jump from capitalism to communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have communism.

We do not have to invade the United States, we will destroy you from within. Nakita

Commies to the left of me! Nazis to the right! Here I am.  Stuck in the middle with you.

Sal
Salvo

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2021, 12:33:52 pm »
Im not studying Brian 😬, I know he really knows.  He just likes a good old fashion friendly debate. lol
The old folks where I grew up would have loved to see him pulling up at the old country store gatherings. I do not know who would have the most fun, him or them. lol
 :wink: :cheesy:

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Online Acebird

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2021, 08:39:37 am »
Brian,
That 200 year old document is what made this country great.
I am afraid you are wrong here Jim it is not the document, it is the will of the "people" to stay together for the good of all that has made this country great.  In 1861 the Confederates did not care what was written.  Had the Confederates won the document would have only lasted 85 years.  It is so ironic that the Trump supporters hold dear the constitution waving the confederate flag.
Brian Cardinal
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Online Acebird

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2021, 09:16:35 am »


Brian is that what your family told the officials when you swore an oath to America and its Constitution as described in reply 2 when you immigrated here attempting to become citizens? Before or after taking the loyalty test and swearing an oath to America and its Constitution?                                                                                                                                                                               .
Phil, first of all I am a citizen of the US by injection.  I was born here.  My father immigrated to the US at the age of 3.  He took and oath and fought in WWII against the Germans.  And he never spoke much about what happened over there.  Having never touched a gun he became a sharp shooter in the army.  He said because he had to be taught the right way to handle it having learned no bad habits.  My father wasn't much of a sportsman.  He owned a bolt action 410 but I can count on one hand the number of times he went hunting.  His focus was on supporting a family making sawdust and pounding nails.  He was conservative but not so conservative that he did not change with the times.  Before he retired he was using industrial nail guns.
A 200 year old document needs to change to keep up with the times.  There is a provision within the document to make changes but we have lost that ability to make any changes mainly because money has more influence in our countries laws then votes do.
We came the closest we have ever come since 1861 to throwing out the constitution during the Trump era.  It was a close call and the damage is not over.
Again such irony that you hold the document so dear yet support the man that attempted to throw it out.
Brian Cardinal
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2021, 09:46:58 am »
I appreciate you telling the rest of the story and the honor and loyalty that your Dad had for our country, his country. A true patriot from your description. That just adds to the question, shouldn?t you even more than many others, through his example of loyalty to freedom and his defending our Country and Constitution, support that same Constitution?
Exactly what is it that you wish to change?
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2021, 07:07:20 pm »
I am always surprised to hear people say that the constitution is not absolute.  It is the LAW. 
Quote
The 200+ year old document is no help for the problems the country faces today.
  So let's get rid of the right to assemble, as it is being used as an excuse to riot.  Free speech should go because people are saying mean and nasty things. I think you can take any amendment and say that it should not apply now because we have bad things happening.

I don't disagree that we currently have problems.  Violence is a result of something.  Not the cause of something.  What has changed in our society that makes people feel it is OK to attack others, burn buildings, scream at people for what they wear or who they support, etc.?  Why are crazy people on the streets degrading life for everyone?
When we got tired of violence in the 70s and 80s and started cracking down, all violent crime went down dramatically and stayed down until recently.  And what have we been doing recently?

Quote
At what point does a republican stop blocking people who are looking for a solution and come up with a solution themselves?

I agree that this is not a party issue except to the extent that the left, mostly dems, wish to go after the weapons that are legally held rather than to after the criminals that are not going to follow any laws in the first place.
My solution?  enforce the laws on the books.  Put people in jail and keep them there.  build more jails if you need to. 
Make sure that your local law enforcement is doing their job so that people (like the guy in FL) have a record and can't legally buy weapons. Institutionalize mentally ill people who are not staying on or responding to medications.   A mother just stabbed her 3 kids to death and her estranged husband had been begging for help in getting the kids away from her.

Banning a weapon because of how it looks is not a solution.  It is a step toward banning other weapons that work in the same way, and are used in most crimes, namely semi-auto handguns.  There is no difference in how semi-auto weapons work.  One of the most lethal weapons is a shotgun.  The most easily concealed and carried, a handgun.  least used in mass shootings?  any kind of rifle. 
https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/

Fix the people problem.  The 2nd amendment is the only one that people feel comfortable messing with.  Given the current leftist bent of our politics, I guarantee it will not be the last. 

And to the original question:  "Ghost guns" as described by our president, are generally something that hobbyists make.  They can create a weapon to their own specs.  It's not cheap or all that easy to create a reliable weapon.  Have they been used in crimes?  yes, but not often.  It's much easier and cheaper for a criminal to buy a gun on the streets. 


They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2021, 08:22:07 am »

I agree that this is not a party issue except to the extent that the left, mostly dems, wish to go after the weapons that are legally held rather than to after the criminals that are not going to follow any laws in the first place.
That is because the right mostly repubs bury their heads in the sand and refuse to acknowledge the problem.  I believe it is better to do something even if it is wrong because there is always a chance it will work.  The repubs like to be associated with friends of the men in blue except when it comes to gun control.
Quote
Have they been used in crimes?  yes, but not often.  It's much easier and cheaper for a criminal to buy a gun on the streets.
Not true, your not up to date.  Money is no object for gangs and the drug lords.  No serial number ... not traceable.  What is wrong with making these guns traceable?  Nothing, absolutely nothing.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2021, 11:57:59 am »
Quote
That is because the right mostly repubs bury their heads in the sand and refuse to acknowledge the problem.  I believe it is better to do something even if it is wrong because there is always a chance it will work.  The repubs like to be associated with friends of the men in blue except when it comes to gun control.

No, we recognize that there is a problem.  We don't agree with leftists about what that problem is.  You think it's guns.  I think it's people and ineffective enforcement of existing laws.
If you can prove that it is legal ownership of weapons, make your case.  Show the correlation between gun ownership numbers and gun crime. 
I can show you the opposite using Portland as an example.  Portland and all of Oregon is pretty white however the gang problem is mostly minorities, black and hispanic.  The Portland police had an effective gun violence reduction team, but when the city council and idiot mayor decided to cut police funding, they specifically cut the gun violence team.  Why?  Because they said that the team disproportionately arrested minorities.  Guess what happened when they cut that team?  In a panic, they decided to add some of the money back to the police, but not to reinstate the team.  Instead, they are sending out touchy-feely people to talk the gangs out of being violent.
Think that will work?  The police don't.  They are quitting in droves. 

Now, apply your "doing something might work" theory to other things.  Older people driving are more apt to have and cause accidents.  We could refuse to license anyone over 60 and maybe reduce that risk.  More kids drown in backyard pools than die by gun accidents.  outlaw backyard pools fewer kids might die.  I bet you can think of a few more ways we could do things that MIGHT work.

Quote
Not true, your not up to date.  Money is no object for gangs and the drug lords.  No serial number ... not traceable.  What is wrong with making these guns traceable?  Nothing, absolutely nothing.

Give me up to date stats then.
You are correct.  Money is no object.  Even so, it is far easier and cheaper to buy a stolen gun off the streets than to sit down a build one to commit a crime.  If a gun is recovered from a gang banger, the only good serial numbers do is to make it easy to trace the gun back to the last legal owner.  You can't stop the crime with a serial number, and it has no impact on the prosecution of the criminal except may to ad weapons theft to the charges.

Same goes for drug lords except that they got a lovely gift of weapons from our government few years ago and we do know that those have been used in crimes including murders.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/furious-guns-tied-to-2010-juarez-massacre-other-murders-in-mexico

If you can explain to me how any of the proposals will stop gun crime, I am listening.  The only people impacted by laws are those willing to follow them in the first place.



They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Online gww

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2021, 01:38:04 pm »
i do not believe I really know some answer to crazy people wanting to hurt them selves and wanting to hurt others or be famous regardless to cost to self or others.  They say 90 percent of the populous is for tougher background checks and such.  I admit to not being part of that 90 percent.  I know of all most no one in my life that has not received or given a gun as a xmas or other present.  The thing about a gun is that is is sorta like gold and is not like a car where you lose 30 percent to eventually the car being worth nothing.  The gun may lose 30 percent but will eventually regain it and so has a value that is lasting.  I am selfish enough to want to not be hindered in this.

I have no doubt that my feelings might be different were I directly effected by some bad effect or even and accident of my own and might wish I have never seen a gun.  I recognize this possibility and feel empathy to those that have been effected but am selfish enough to not want to lose what I have did my whole life with out ill effect.

I quit the nra many years ago due to the stance they had that being hard on crime was the answer cause I was more of the mind that violence begets violence and have chaffed at every rule that made things harder on me personally.  The war on drugs is probably the thing that has made america have 25 percent world prison population.  I do not communicate well enough to get my thoughts across in the amount of words that I am willing to type.  It is something like if jay walking was a death sentence you might be willing to shoot back rather then be caught for jay walking.

The worthless suckers that like to harm others don't really seem to be that discriminating about their ideology to cause harm.  I base this on the news media reporting and how what is being reported always seem to cause some kind of copy cat.  I could be wrong on this and it could be that each bad thing is happening and they are not reporting some of it.  It does from the outside seem that there are trends based on what is being reported though.  Serial killers, school shootings, churches/religion, gays, capital, etc.. they all seem to happen in little spurts based on the first ones reported on.  Sorta which came first the chicken or the egg.

So all this come back to one place in my mind.  You got to accept that some are going to want to cause harm to others and those need to be punished and you do not get that done by punishing innocents' in an effort to punish them.  You can not guess your way to who is willing to hurt themselves and others but can more only react to what they do.  There may be some exceptions but over all it is the bad guy who get to decide how bad he is willing to be.

Pushing people into corners by making things harder on them does not in my mind make for nicer people.

I don't really know an answer and sorta just muddle through life doing what I do.  I know that I intend to hurt no one and so chaff at things that make life harder or different for me just to mess with some bad guy.

If I am ever attacked and innocent, it will be a wrong done to me and I would hope to have every chance to defend myself and hope that others might be able to help defend me but it will be the bad guy that decides what he is going to do.  I want there to be risk for him and I want there to be justice for me but realize the risk of living the way I am and accept it with my fingers crossed.   I can not think of a alternative way to live that I would accept better but admit that I have not faced some bad and might have a different view if I had but am where I am now.   

In my mind, you should get away with a whole lot as long as you do not personally cause real pain to others whether people agree or not and if you cause real pain to others, you should be stomped on.
My gooby gook for the day.
Cheers
gww


Online Ben Framed

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2021, 01:52:15 pm »
It all boils down to what Captain Call told Knute when he pitched him the colt and holster in the movie Lonesome Dove.   "It's better to have this and not need it, than it is to need it and not have it."
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 07:52:23 pm by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.