Beaver Beetles

[Acebird]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/msJxx6Y6KqXuCf5B8
My hive was overrun by beaver beetles.  One more pest in FL that attack hives AND EQUIPMENT.

[AR Beekeeper]

Greater or Lesser?

[BeeMaster2]

Looks like greater to me😊

Description
The beaver beetle is an ectoparasitic beetle that is only found on its host species, beavers, and the sole member of the genus Platypsyllus. It is flattened and eyeless, resembling a flea or tick. Wikipedia
Scientific name: Platypsyllus castoris
Phylum: Arthropoda
Order: Beetles
Rank: Species
Kingdom: Animalia

[The15thMember]

That is horrible!  You FL beeks are up to your ears in pests! 

[The15thMember]

The beaver beetle is an ectoparasitic beetle that is only found on its host species, beavers,

Wait, I'm confused.  If they are only found on beavers, how are they in beehives? 

[jimineycricket]

Just one more reason I am glad I live where the air hurts your face.

[AR Beekeeper]

This post is how wild tales get started.

[rast]

I had those same beetles before too, course I'm in Fl.

[Acebird]

I named them beaver beetles because they are eating into the wooden ware.  I didn't know there is actually a beaver beetle.  I am not sure what they are.  The worms look like hive beetles.  I am not an expert on hive beetles because they are not much of a problem up north.  What ever they are they gouged out the wood on the end bars and boxes.

[BeeMaster2]

Ace,
The holes are from greater wax moth larvae. I thought you were posting this as a joke.
Jim Altmiller

[Ben Framed]

Ace,
The holes are from greater wax moth larvae. I thought you were posting this as a joke.
Jim Altmiller

I did too!  Thanks fir the smile Brian 😊. 

[The15thMember]

Thanks for clearing this up, everyone.  I was extremely confused and was not prepared to let it go.   

This post is how wild tales get started.

SO TRUE.  The beaver hive beetle is a new Florida cryptid. 

Ace,
The holes are from greater wax moth larvae. I thought you were posting this as a joke.
Jim Altmiller

I didn't know wax moth could do that kind of damage to wood! 

[Oldbeavo]

Bit off topic, but you should see what Wax Moth larvae can do to a polystyrene hive, go right through 40mm, 1 1/2 inches of polystyrene.
had to paint inside and outside with water based glue and repaint.

[Ben Framed]

Bit off topic, but you should see what Wax Moth larvae can do to a polystyrene hive, go right through 40mm, 1 1/2 inches of polystyrene.
had to paint inside and outside with water based glue and repaint.

That hurts. Are they a big problem in Australia (where you live)?

[Acebird]

Well I have seen hives up north pretty well infested with wax moth and did not see any wooden destruction.

[van from Arkansas]

Ok, can I post on wax moth, already mentioned,  although the subject is beaver beetle.  Good one Ace.  So if nobody minds?

I would really like to know how wax moth can digest wax and or plastic.  Wax is almost  impossible to dissolve even with strong nitric or sulfuric acid.  To my knowledge only pure ammonia, not what you buy at the store, can dissolve wax.  My concern is this, can scientists use whatever X is in the wax moth stomach (salvia?) that dissolves wax and plastic and use X to get rid of the garbage plastic.  Takes Mother Nature decades, plural, to break down plastic.

I have seen depressions in wood made by wax moth.  How?  I did not think the moth had teeth,  the moth has the tiniest mouth?

There are some very curious features about wax moths.  This is one for Mr, BenFramed or Ms. Member to dive into the data and inform BeeMaster beeks.

A bit off subject, Mr. Ace.  I hope you don?t send me any of those beaver beetles for going off subject.

Health to All.

[Ben Framed]

Ok, can I post on wax moth, already mentioned,  although the subject is beaver beetle.  Good one Ace.  So if nobody minds?

I would really like to know how wax moth can digest wax and or plastic.  Wax is almost  impossible to dissolve even with strong nitric or sulfuric acid.  To my knowledge only pure ammonia, not what you buy at the store, can dissolve wax.  My concern is this, can scientists use whatever X is in the wax moth stomach (salvia?) that dissolves wax and plastic and use X to get rid of the garbage plastic.  Takes Mother Nature decades, plural, to break down plastic.

I have seen depressions in wood made by wax moth.  How?  I did not think the moth had teeth,  the moth has the tiniest mouth?

There are some very curious features about wax moths.  This is one for Mr, BenFramed or Ms. Member to dive into the data and inform BeeMaster beeks.

A bit off subject, Mr. Ace.  I hope you don?t send me any of those beaver beetles for going off subject.

Health to All.

Mr Van, our professor, You have made some very good points. Your interesting thoughts deserve looking into. I bet my classmate is already on it. Maybe others too? 
Ms Member? 🙂

[AR Beekeeper]

It is not the moth that chews the wood, it is the worm.  When the infestation is large, and the worms don't have a lot of comb in which to construct their cocoon, they move onto the wooden surfaces and they chew out a depression in which to anchor the cocoon.

[BeeMaster2]

Van,
I have plasticell foundation that has greater wax moth cut across the cells.
A few of years ago I posted a thread here on BeeMaster that talked about scientists studying using wax moths to break down plastic.
Jim Altmiller

[BeeMaster2]

Here is the link:
https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=50029.msg436595#msg436595

Note the sentence that I copied from this link.
 The researchers also discovered that by simply having the cocoon in contact with polyethylene, the plastic biodegrades.

[The15thMember]

Ok, can I post on wax moth, already mentioned,  although the subject is beaver beetle.  Good one Ace.  So if nobody minds?

I would really like to know how wax moth can digest wax and or plastic.  Wax is almost  impossible to dissolve even with strong nitric or sulfuric acid.  To my knowledge only pure ammonia, not what you buy at the store, can dissolve wax.  My concern is this, can scientists use whatever X is in the wax moth stomach (salvia?) that dissolves wax and plastic and use X to get rid of the garbage plastic.  Takes Mother Nature decades, plural, to break down plastic.

I have seen depressions in wood made by wax moth.  How?  I did not think the moth had teeth,  the moth has the tiniest mouth?

There are some very curious features about wax moths.  This is one for Mr, BenFramed or Ms. Member to dive into the data and inform BeeMaster beeks.

A bit off subject, Mr. Ace.  I hope you don?t send me any of those beaver beetles for going off subject.

Health to All.

Mr Van, our professor, You have made some very good points. Your interesting thoughts deserve looking into. I bet my classmate is already on it. Maybe others too? 
Ms Member? 🙂

ON IT!     Actually the article Jim reposted on the other thread covers it pretty well.  The only expansion that I feel worth noting is that researchers found that it is several species of bacteria living in the waxworm's gut that enables it to digest plastic and wax.  From Smithsonian Magazine: "Their hunch proved right: the researchers found that two types of bacteria living inside the worm -- Enterobacter asburiae and Bacillus sp. YP1 -- happily munch their way through polyethylene films, even when isolated from their invertebrate host. Over a 60 day period, the two bacterial colonies degraded about 6 percent and 10 percent of a 100 mg piece of plastic, respectively." 

I have seen depressions in wood made by wax moth.  How?  I did not think the moth had teeth,  the moth has the tiniest mouth?

It is not the moth that chews the wood, it is the worm.  When the infestation is large, and the worms don't have a lot of comb in which to construct their cocoon, they move onto the wooden surfaces and they chew out a depression in which to anchor the cocoon.

AR is correct, it is only the larvae who can chew, as the adults have a proboscis like a butterfly.  No insect to my knowledge has actual teeth per se, but many, like our honey bees, have serrated mandibles which function like teeth.  Most species of caterpillar have mandibles like this

for tearing off pieces of their food and chewing it, and I'd imagine that waxworms (who of course are really caterpillars and not actual worms) are no different from other caterpillars in this respect. 

[Ben Framed]

Good topic and posts (all). I have enjoyed it so far. This is another proof that beemaster and its members are a good team!

[Bob Wilson]

This explains the gouged wood and silky cocoon my friend found on the frames he received from an old beekeeper going out of the bee business.

[Oldbeavo]

Wax moth is our biggest warm weather pest.
We treat stored brood frames every 2 weeks, some times we put supers of stickies back on hives for the bees to look after and keep the wax moth out.
When extracting all brood frames that get into the super are taken out, white stickies are less attractive to WM.
We have to unpack all supers and nucs and store the black frames separate and treat them.
As we run single brood boxes with QX's any pollen stored in supers is also attractive to WM attack.
Worse than SHB for us.

[Acebird]

A bit off subject, Mr. Ace.  I hope you don?t send me any of those beaver beetles for going off subject.

Not at all Van.  I welcome knowledge on the subject.  That is exactly what beemaster is for.

[Acebird]

Coming down here I feel like I have never owned bees.

[Ben Framed]

Coming down here I feel like I have never owned bees.

Brian don't let your tail feathers get to dragging. We all know you know bees. That I would suppose is why Jim always stress location to new folks who ask for advice, as location plays a key part in giving that advice.  Again thanks for the honest smile.

[van from Arkansas]

Yes Sir, thank you Jim.

We still don't know the details of how this biodegradation occurs, but there is a possibility that an enzyme is responsible. The next step is to detect, isolate, and produce this enzyme in vitro on an industrial scale.. Paste from Jim?s article.  VITRO means in a test tube or lab bench is another way of saying.

I was texting about the chemical, X, that the moth/larva produce that degraded plastic or wax.  I would very much like to know what X is that eludes so many scientists.  Wax particularly is so difficult to chemically alter.

Ms. Member, bacteria yes.  That makes perfect sense.  Thank you Lady for researching this for BeeMaster.  You are a jewel!

Best to All,

[The15thMember]

Ms. Member, bacteria yes.  That makes perfect sense.  Thank you Lady for researching this for BeeMaster.  You are a jewel!

Best to All,

Thanks, Mr. Van.  Always happy to help! 

[Bill Murray]

Wow, this was a good post. I always looked at wax moths as a necessary evil, but a way to degrade plastic? wax moth breeders unite. 

[Skeggley]

Wax moth is our biggest warm weather pest.
We treat stored brood frames every 2 weeks, some times we put supers of stickies back on hives for the bees to look after and keep the wax moth out.
When extracting all brood frames that get into the super are taken out, white stickies are less attractive to WM.
We have to unpack all supers and nucs and store the black frames separate and treat them.
As we run single brood boxes with QX's any pollen stored in supers is also attractive to WM attack.
Worse than SHB for us.

How do you treat for Wax moth Oldbeavo?

[van from Arkansas]

Wax moth is our biggest warm weather pest.
We treat stored brood frames every 2 weeks, some times we put supers of stickies back on hives for the bees to look after and keep the wax moth out.
When extracting all brood frames that get into the super are taken out, white stickies are less attractive to WM.
We have to unpack all supers and nucs and store the black frames separate and treat them.
As we run single brood boxes with QX's any pollen stored in supers is also attractive to WM attack.
Worse than SHB for us.

How do you treat for Wax moth Oldbeavo?

I use paramoth, Arkansas, although I realize your? is to Mr. Beavo.

Burrrrrr to weather.

[rast]

Coming down here I feel like I have never owned bees.

  Two decades ago, I remember the "illustrious" Mr Jerry Hays telling us that one of the hardest things to do is to keep honeybees in Florida year round.

[JurassicApiary]

Several of my hives have had wax moth issues as of late.  SHB and moths have been getting seemingly worse here.  VM not so much thankfully; Our wild bees seemed to have developed good resistance to VM at this point.  Will be looking in to the Para-Moth Mr. Van mentioned.  Any suggestions regarding its use?

[Bill Murray]

I put 1 tablespoon on a piece of beerbox carton, stack next super, 1 tablespoon on a piece of beerbox carton, keep repeating till i cant reach, cover, start a new stack. I use to tape the joints , but no longer do. Open in 3-4 weeks see if there is still paramoth if not. repeat. If I find any sign of moths like one on the comb. That whole box goes into a chest freezer for 24 hrs purchased many yrs ago just for bee things.

[BeeMaster2]

When you use moth crystals, before you put treated frames back on your hives bee sure to air them out for a week. I put mine in my work shop on their sides in a circle around a oscillating fan for a week. This helps keep moths out until I put them back on the hive. And it airs them out faster if I need them.
Jim Altmiller

[JurassicApiary]

Thank you BM & Jim for your info.  May I substitute traditional mothballs (para-dichlorobenzene (1,4-dichlorobenzene) variety) for the Para-Moth brand?  It seems difficult to get the name brand stuff shipped to Hawaii, but I can acquire mothballs locally, which seems to be the same chemically (newer mothballs at least...older ones were a more flammable chemical, however the new version seems to be para-dichlorobenzene (1,4-dichlorobenzene) all-around unless I'm mistaken.  Thoughts?

[iddee]

You can use moth crystals from the local store, but unless they have changed the formula, you cannot use the moth balls. Two different animals entirely.

[Skeggley]

Yeah, we don?t have that here in Aus, nor BT kurstaki and cannot leave any wax out at any time due to WM, my beekeeping nemesis. I have several frames and hives that have been destroyed by the buggers. 

We?re beginning a week around your 100?s, so I?ll see your brrrrrrr and raise you a eeerrrrgh Van.

[Bill Murray]

para-dichlorobenzene or PBD is what you are looking for. the other, mothballs, are made from petroleum Do not use. I just walked out and got an empty bucket so that is how its spelled. And thanks Jim I normally stack my supers crisscross outside under the overhang 7 to 10 days before putting them on. Its been 40 yrs since I been to the island but Im sure you have a wall mart there now it can be found in small quantities so im told.

[The15thMember]

Thank you BM & Jim for your info.  May I substitute traditional mothballs (para-dichlorobenzene (1,4-dichlorobenzene) variety) for the Para-Moth brand?  It seems difficult to get the name brand stuff shipped to Hawaii, but I can acquire mothballs locally, which seems to be the same chemically (newer mothballs at least...older ones were a more flammable chemical, however the new version seems to be para-dichlorobenzene (1,4-dichlorobenzene) all-around unless I'm mistaken.  Thoughts?

I put paradichlorobenzene mothballs in with frames to help keep pests away over winter, and I've never had any issues. 

[Acebird]

But the mothballs are deadly to the bees!

[Bill Murray]

As long as its para-dichlorobenzene or PBD its ok. Maybe some places it comes in different forms/names than we are used to seeing. It just has to be para-dichlorobenzene or PBD. I guess to put it another way it could be called scoot moth and be shaped like a glass as long as the ingredient label reads para-dichlorobenzene its ok.

[The15thMember]

As long as its para-dichlorobenzene or PBD its ok. Maybe some places it comes in different forms/names than we are used to seeing. It just has to be para-dichlorobenzene or PBD. I guess to put it another way it could be called scoot moth and be shaped like a glass as long as the ingredient label reads para-dichlorobenzene its ok.

DITTO!  Check your active ingredient labels, whether it's crystals or balls.  Paradichlorobenzene is what you want.  Naphthalene, the other common active ingredient in these types of products, is NOT safe for use with bees in any capacity.

But the mothballs are deadly to the bees!

Paradichlorobenzene can kill bees if they are exposed to the mothballs themselves.  So don't put paradichlorobenzene in a hive with live bees or anywhere else bees could get into them, only in empty stored equipment/wax, and the equipment should be aired out before use like Jim said.  The difference is the paradichlorobenzene won't leave any dangerous residue behind, but the naphthalene will.   

https://www.honeybeesuite.com/can-i-use-mothballs-in-my-hives/

   

[Acebird]

The difference is the paradichlorobenzene won't leave any dangerous residue behind, but the naphthalene will.   
https://www.honeybeesuite.com/can-i-use-mothballs-in-my-hives/
 

There is always residue left behind but in very tiny amounts.  The problem is taking it on as a practice means repeat doses.  There is noting harmful in drinking water from a plastic bottle until all your food is packaged in plastic.  So you go from one drink in a plastic bottle to consuming everything package in plastic.  There never is that amount of testing done on consumables except time.

[JurassicApiary]

Thank you all for the informative and insightful responses.  I will be sure to procure para-dichlorobenzene crystals.  (Indeed, the traditional Moth Balls still seem to be made of Napthalene, however most Moth Crystals and Moth Cakes I've found listed list para-dichlorobenzene as the active ingredient.)  Looking around at local stores online some carry it, so there's hope for me sourcing it here.  Thanks everyone for your direction.