Author Topic: Bees in fall (Read 7850 times)

Butteredloins · « **on:** March 31, 2018, 06:51:23 am »

I recently have been feeding my new bees sugar water of 1:1 and 2:1. They have nicely filled up 7-8 frames of honey brood and pollen. They are working on building wax comb on the final 2 frames. My question is a few. I have stopped feeding them sugar water as they have a lot of honey and it seems as though there is very little brood and lots of honey and uncapped nectar. Is it normal that they are laying less brood due to space, I feel as though the queen (who is alive and well) is laying less due to space?
Also coming into winter, I live on the east coast in wollonong. Can I add a small vent into the hive lid for ventilation, or will it be to cold for the bees coming into winter.
Also with all this honey it's tempting to add another box, but should I just wait for spring and let the bees do there thing and prepare for winter?.
Thanks everyone

Acebird · « **Reply #1 on:** March 31, 2018, 08:48:21 am »

It might help your locals answer if you describe the whole hive. What equipment and how many boxes, maybe what type of hive.

Skeggley · « **Reply #2 on:** March 31, 2018, 11:40:08 am »

I wouldn't be adding another box at this stage of the season. The days are getting shorter and cooler so the bees will be building stores and reducing laying room in preparation for winter.
But, as Ace said, see what others are doing in your area.
Bees do quite well ventilating through the entrance, all my vented lids have been propolized, it was their call and I didn't argue. ;)

220 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 31, 2018, 03:57:44 pm »

My winters would be a fair bit colder than yours, all my inner covers have a small 25x10mm notch as a top entrance. Last year I gave them all a top entrance when I packed down for winter, there is a chance the lower entrance could be blocked with snow where I am. There are also claims a top entrance helps with condensation.
When I did my first spring inspection half the hives had propolised the top entrance closed half were wide open. I will give them all a top entrance again this year and let the bees decide if they want it or not. A small entrance like I give them certainly isnt a massive amount of work to close off if they decide they dont like it.

Butteredloins · « **Reply #4 on:** March 31, 2018, 10:30:54 pm »

Sorry I have a single langstroth hive box which is 10frames and is a deep. The bees suffer from chalkbrood and I thought the extra air would help out with that. They get heaps of sun throughout the day and are well off the ground also.

I just didn't want them swarming and thought maybe they could start building the second 10frame deep box in preparation for spring. I would remove it just before winter because I only want single brood box set up. but at least some work will be done so maybe they would have less to build in spring

Acebird · « **Reply #5 on:** April 01, 2018, 12:02:17 pm »

You could try to requeen. Chalkbrood in the fall is not a good report. Hope it makes it.

max2 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 01, 2018, 06:51:20 pm »

It will be very difficult to find a queen in NSW in April.

I'm much further North and there are no queens left here till probably September

beepro · « **Reply #7 on:** April 01, 2018, 09:12:52 pm »

Don't let the Fall harvest fool you. They might look like in an early Spring expansion mode but in reality it is
really a contraction mode preparing them for the coming winter. So all you can do is to put honey supers on for them
to collect and then save the cap honey (do not extract them) for overwintering. To prevent a late Fall swarm give them
plenty of room to harvest the stores. Don't let them fool you....April fool!

eltalia · « **Reply #8 on:** April 02, 2018, 12:35:34 am »

Quote from: Butteredloins on March 31, 2018, 06:51:23 am

I recently have been feeding my new bees sugar water of 1:1 and 2:1. They have nicely filled up 7-8 frames of
honey brood and pollen.

If the sugar water is disappearing from your internal feeder it is most likey
what you have are frames loaded with sugar water, not nectar/honey.
Feeding bees sugar water/fondant/whatever in this Country is just plain wrong.
There is plenty of opportunity to take off frames of honey etc in those locations
_any_ feeding may be required during unforseen deatths.

Quote

I feel as though the queen (who is alive and well) is laying less due to space?

Exactly... doing the bees a disservice in holding back maintaining CM.

Quote

Also coming into winter, I live on the east coast in wollonong. Can I add a small vent
into the hive lid for ventilation, or will it be to cold for the bees coming into winter.

Anywhere any colony has to be able to control it's own airpath. That includes bring
in "fresh air".. to keep it simple.
Skegs is spoton... bees will control the flow. Your CB is there very likely from poor
circulation of air. If no top vent is available, make one and mesh it. You can do this
now with battery drill and spade bit, "on the fly".
I attach the ideal location.

Quote

Also with all this honey it's tempting to add another box,

Don't... that ship has sailed with your excuberant dousing with sugar water.

Lucks to the bees :-))

Bill

max2 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 02, 2018, 01:35:17 am »

"Skegs is spoton... bees will control the flow"

More difficult if you have plastic foundation

eltalia · « **Reply #10 on:** April 02, 2018, 03:42:11 am »

Quote from: max2 on April 02, 2018, 01:35:17 am

"Skegs is spoton... bees will control the flow"

More difficult if you have plastic foundation

Carn't get a grip on your observation there, Skip.
You'll need to hold me hand on this one, to join
the dots, like :-))

Bill

beepro · « **Reply #11 on:** April 02, 2018, 09:06:36 pm »

Yep, cap sugar is not honey. You like to call it honey but they don't taste like it. When dissolved in water there
is no cloudy water so it is not honey. Sugar dissolved in water is clear pretty much.

eltalia · « **Reply #12 on:** April 02, 2018, 10:33:31 pm »

Quote from: beepro on April 02, 2018, 09:06:36 pm

Yep, cap sugar is not honey. You like to call it honey but they don't taste like it. When dissolved in water there
is no cloudy water so it is not honey. Sugar dissolved in water is clear pretty much.

:thumbs up:

Bill

Butteredloins · « **Reply #13 on:** April 04, 2018, 08:57:35 pm »

Thanks guys. Yes am aware that it's not honey and is definitely sugar as I've been feeding them that. I didnt want to give sugar water but since it was a new hive and I got it fairly late in summer they just weren't drawing out the frames and looked like they wouldn't be ready for winter. So I decided to give sugar water to boost there productivity before it starts getting colder and it definitely worked. I will drill in a hole for the chalkbrood, I don't need to requeen as she is a new queen already. See how they go. But will 5 frames of sugar water honey be enough to last them winter. Or should I keep feeding until they get more

Acebird · « **Reply #14 on:** April 05, 2018, 09:02:09 am »

Quote from: Butteredloins on April 04, 2018, 08:57:35 pm

I will drill in a hole for the chalkbrood,

I wouldn't. There are ways to ventilate without ruining boxes.
The sugar water vs. honey is another heated debate. Some will say it is better to overwinter and others will say it is worse. In my area if a hive had chalkbrood in the fall it won't make spring no matter what you do. Good luck.

Butteredloins · « **Reply #15 on:** April 05, 2018, 07:58:40 pm »

I've heard that chalkbrood is quite common and most hives have at least the spores of it present. It's just whether the bees are healthy and strong or not whether U see the signs. Or am I completely wrong. Also looks like I will have to cross my fingers than for winter, I hope as long as they have food they can make it

Acebird · « **Reply #16 on:** April 05, 2018, 08:58:41 pm »

Chalkbrood is a brood disease. Not normally a serious disease but any disease is detrimental in the fall (assuming a major dearth). Mites transmit viruses which don't take their toll until the fall. Same thing. Basically a hive should be healthy if YOU expect it to overwinter. That is why commercial operators will dust off weak hives or combine them to make strong hives for winter survival. Dinks are not worth saving. Guess what, nature does the same thing. Survival of the fittest.
Just so you know most hives have the spores of AFB but only the unhealthy break out with the disease. You yourself have a host of nasty diseases around you. It is in your best interest to eat right, exercise, and maintain a healthy lifestyle rather than rely on the miracles of modern medicine to keep you alive. But how many people do that?

Butteredloins · « **Reply #17 on:** April 06, 2018, 12:11:38 am »

Well since this is my only hive I will have to just see how it goes since I can't combine them with anything else. They arnt the strongest but hopefully with our mild winters they might survive. Can only try

eltalia · « **Reply #18 on:** April 06, 2018, 12:41:13 am »

Quote from: Butteredloins on April 05, 2018, 07:58:40 pm

I've heard that chalkbrood is quite common and most hives have at least the spores of it
present. It's just whether the bees are healthy and strong or not whether U see the signs.
Or am I completely wrong. Also looks like I will have to cross my fingers than for winter,
I hope as long as they have food they can make it

The bees will be fine.
Your're on track, just make sure they get as much sun as possible in
your yard.
The 'Bird gets a tad excited flipping through posts and manuals seeking
answers to our problems. He means well and every forum has one so
go with the flow (pun). :grins:

Bill

max2 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 06, 2018, 07:46:20 am »

Acebird
" Just so you know most hives have the spores of AFB but only the unhealthy break out with the disease."

I have read this before but is there actual proof of this? Where does the information come from?

Acebird · « **Reply #20 on:** April 06, 2018, 08:19:27 am »

AFB like the common cold is everywhere in the world that bees are. The bacteria cannot live outside of the bee so the only way it could have spread so far is for the spores to be carried there. Drones visit hives that are not their own. Worker bees visit flowers and then workers from another hive will visit the same flower. The spreading of spores is guaranteed.
Even if you were to burn every hive in an apiary with only one case of AFB there would still be spores in the area.

eltalia · « **Reply #21 on:** April 06, 2018, 06:05:59 pm »

Quote from: Acebird on April 06, 2018, 08:19:27 am

AFB like the common cold is everywhere in the world that bees are. The bacteria cannot live outside of the bee so the only way it could have spread so far is for the spores to be carried there. Drones visit hives that are not their own. Worker bees visit flowers and then workers from another hive will visit the same flower. The spreading of spores is guaranteed.
Even if you were to burn every hive in an apiary with only one case of AFB there would
still be spores in the area.

Soooo.. drone technology will lead us (royal) into the '30s
where b'keeps will be console operators tasked with collecting
"food of the g0ds" for processing in communal digestors
producing 'honey'.
Right...got it! :laffs:

Bill

Butteredloins · « **Reply #22 on:** April 06, 2018, 10:24:11 pm »

Here are some photos of my hive after my inspection this morning.

Butteredloins · « **Reply #23 on:** April 06, 2018, 10:25:16 pm »

Butteredloins · « **Reply #24 on:** April 06, 2018, 10:26:37 pm »

Butteredloins · « **Reply #25 on:** April 06, 2018, 10:30:08 pm »

Butteredloins · « **Reply #26 on:** April 06, 2018, 10:31:21 pm »

Butteredloins · « **Reply #27 on:** April 06, 2018, 10:42:03 pm »

Bees have all most built out all the frames. There is also of honey and pollen in the hive. And bees seem to be bringing in a lot of pollen on there legs. But still not happy with the brood pattern it seems the old frames that I got with the bees with seem to have very patchy brood. While the new frames I put in have a more uniform pattern. I couldn't find the queen but there were lots of eggs in the bottom of cells and I saw her last week so I'll just pressure she's there. I did still spot a few chalkbrood mummies but much less. And I don't know if it's pollen or sucbrood in some of the cells. Can you guys see anything

Butteredloins · « **Reply #28 on:** April 06, 2018, 10:44:50 pm »

eltalia · « **Reply #29 on:** April 07, 2018, 01:18:52 am »

Going from the background witness this is a single deep broodchamber, correct BL?
Sooo.. those frames carrying a solid central brood pattern with capped honey
over move to the positions #4 through #8 - #8 being the warm side.
The spotty frames... sort by order of scarcity (most capped to less) and place from
#3 through #1 - and mark them so in the runup to spring you know which to move
up into a super.
The most empty (very little capped anything) place in position #9. Mark it also.
The bees may move capped honey from the core to the extremes to make room for
brood IF the foraging keeps up. Where you do not see that happening in the
inspection next weekend - to see they are simply filling those outside frames with
nectar - then they are on the path to survival mode for Winter... leave them to do
just that. Cheerio.

Bill

cao · « **Reply #30 on:** April 07, 2018, 01:31:04 am »

You said that you couldn't find the queen. 4 posts above this one. Top picture. Center of the frame vertically, about 1/4 from the left side.

Butteredloins · « **Reply #31 on:** April 07, 2018, 02:11:01 am »

Yes it's a single deep brood chamber. Ok will do and see how they go, should I give them sugar water or just keep leaving it like I have for abit. Also yes I can see the queen, I missed her during the inspection my eye isn't that good yet haha. Probably to late now, but in spring should I aim to get rid of those old 5 frames that I got with my nuke.

eltalia · « **Reply #32 on:** April 07, 2018, 03:52:35 am »

Quote from: Butteredloins on April 07, 2018, 02:11:01 am

Yes it's a single deep brood chamber. Ok will do and see how they go, should I give them sugar
water or just keep leaving it like I have for abit. Also yes I can see the queen, I missed her
during the inspection my eye isn't that good yet haha. Probably to late now, but in spring should
I aim to get rid of those old 5 frames that I got with my nuke.

I myself would not be feeding BL...entirely down to you that one.
Tho' I'd advise waiting till next inspection (weekend next) before
making any decision on that score.
Let's wait till Spring to see how those frames are utilised by the bees, hey?
They will be marked so if they prove duds then tbey can be swapped out
for refurbish. Meantime washout the nuc with bleach and leave it in the
sun a few days to then put in storage. Cheerio.

Bill

max2 · « **Reply #33 on:** April 07, 2018, 05:03:15 am »

The queen is on post 24 , about in the middle on the left - about 10 cm in from the left edge.

Butteredloins · « **Reply #34 on:** April 07, 2018, 07:08:33 am »

Thanks Bill will do. Yes I see her.

beepro · « **Reply #35 on:** April 07, 2018, 08:49:32 pm »

To avoid the high moisture condition during the winter time they must cap the sugar water before winter sets in. You can feed them 2:1 for a
thicker syrup concentration. Or you can give them sugar bricks all winter long in a mild winter area much like us here. Don't give too much that they will
plug up the cells that the queen cannot lay for the winter bees. Winter bees are important to the hive health or whether or not they can overwinter. Good luck!

JimW · « **Reply #36 on:** April 21, 2018, 12:39:58 am »

Hi there,

I had chalkbrood problems in Sydney previously. I got rid of it by chocking up the hive using old fence pailings so there was a reasonable slant toward the front of the hive to allow the moisture to run out. Gave the base board a good clean to get rid of the mummies.

Another tip was to chuck a banana peel on top of the frames, as this apparently encourages them to clean the hive. Not sure if this actually works but I tried it anyway.

Hope this helps
Jim

Butteredloins · « **Reply #37 on:** April 21, 2018, 11:52:29 pm »

Did a inspection and moved some frames around. Seems a lot of bees in the box, almost 8 frames filled with bees and bees still out foraging. Noticed two hive bettles, but have two traps in there, so nothing else I can do. I did however notice these tiny bugs on the base of the hive, under the bettle trap. Does any know what they might be. Could it be white ants or something. There also seems to be alot of this black and brown particles around the entrance and in the bottom board. Also still don't like the look of this black looking mould on the front frame panel.