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Author Topic: Extractor decisions  (Read 12403 times)

Offline omnimirage

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Extractor decisions
« on: November 17, 2017, 01:22:09 am »
I've been using the crush and strain method, and I'm finding that the bees make honey faster than I can strain it. It's time to acquire an extractor!

I'm not sure if it'd be best for me to go to the hives and switch out honeyframes with empty frames, then spin at home. If I did it this way, how should I then store all of those sticky honey frames? The other option would be to take the extractor out with me and spin in my apiary site. Doing it this way would mean I'd end up camping. If I did that, could I tie an extractor to the roof rack of my car, or would I need to take a trailer with me or maybe even buy myself a ute/van?

If I took one out with me, would I need a mechanical one, or might it be feasible to run an electric one still without access to a power grid? Would using a hand one take too much time for someone who has 40-100 hives?

Does the frame amount that it can spin matter much? I'm not sure if some numbers are more effective than others.

How successful have people been who've built their own extractor? Are the professionally made ones much more effective? I have a friend who said he'd help me build one, he has an engine to motorise it and it seems simple enough to do though it's a bit beyond my skills. I see that one can get stainless steel mesh to build into baskets to hold the frames. One can then attach the baskets to a rod that sits on something that can rotate... a ballbearing? Then attach that to the sides of a stainless steel drum and install a honeygate underneath, attach it to the engine. Does all the metal, the rod, and nuts, have to be stainless steel for it to be food grade? What kind of things could I use for the drum? Would an oil barrel work?

Offline cao

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2017, 03:20:55 am »
Sounds to me that you are going to have to find out what works best for you.  This year I took honey off about 15-20 of my hives.  I have a three frame manual extractor that I got cheap at an auction a couple of years ago.  When I remove the honey frames from a hive, I will add empty frames if needed or if I just pull a few frames from a box.  If I remove a full box, I don't add any.  After extraction, I will put the stickies back on which ever hive needs them.  Usually I can get it done within a few days.   

I extract my honey in my house.  I could never extract out by my hives because it would cause a major feeding frenzy and set off robbing. 

If you have a friend that can build an extractor for you, I would say go for it.  I believe that there is a food grade paint or sealer that you can use for anything that is not stainless.

Hope this helps some.

Online Acebird

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2017, 10:17:01 am »
Use a plastic barrel not steel.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bm61HD1B08UfwsS63
I would not do it in the apiary.  Where are you going to get water and how will you keep the bees out of the honey?
The decision to use dry frame replacement or wet frame replacement is how long will it be before you can replace the wet frames?
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Offline mikecva

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2017, 02:59:55 pm »
With 40-100 hives you will have one heck of sore arm.  :shocked:

If you belong to a club, try to borrow different size extractors as a test. I have known several beeks that built their own but they ended up buying a store bought or used extractor after 2-3 years as their home made one just got to hard to use.  -Mike
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2017, 03:48:50 pm »
With 40 hives, I recommend you buy at least a 18 or 20 frame motorized extractor or buy one that you can add one to.
As mentioned, do not try to extract in your apiary. You may get away with it during a flow but it will cause serious problems with out one.
I recommend you remove as many Supers as you can, extract them, return to your apiary and put them back on. If the flow is still on they will fill them back up. Then remove the remaining Supers.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2017, 03:51:33 pm »
If you plan on installing a motor. Make sure it is a variable speed motor.
You also want a radial extractor.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Offline omnimirage

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2017, 06:48:10 pm »
18-20 frames sure is a lot, to buy something like that I'm looking at a 4 figure investment; quite a lot of money ugh.

What's a radial extractor?

Offline gww

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2017, 08:47:19 pm »
You could always build this.
http://beesource.com/build-it-yourself/20-frame-honey-extractor/
I wanted to build this but ended up building one with a trash can that does 4 mediums.  With the price of the cheap chineese ones they sell on ebay, if you don't just have the stuff free laying around and not being used but more have to buy you parts, you probly can not do it cheaper then the chineese ones.  I had the stuff laying around and so did what I did.  If I wouldn't have had to spend so much on plywood and all thread, I would have liked to build the 20 frame I linked to.  I do say that it would be harder to move around and might need a more dedicated space then a bought one would.
Just threw it out there.  I did watch a whole bunch of you tube on homemade extractors before tackling mine.  Mine is definatly cobbed together but I have used it twice and it works just fine. 
Good luck
gww

Online Acebird

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2017, 09:08:51 pm »
Mine is definatly cobbed together but I have used it twice and it works just fine. 

One should not be fixated on what something looks like but how it give you pleasure.
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Offline gww

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2017, 09:41:11 pm »
Ace
Quote
One should not be fixated on what something looks like but how it give you pleasure.
That was an uplifting comment.
Thank you
gww

Offline omnimirage

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2017, 12:49:04 am »
Well 100 is more the max I can see myself ever having. I currently have 25 hives. I've done some research and I'm rather blown away by how expensive they are to buy. Holding less than 8 frames seems like not enough. Heck, I'm not sure but even 8 frames seems like a low number, at least 9 frames can do a single super in one go. 8-9 frame spinner will cost me about $1300-1500, if I want to do more 12-20 frames then I need to add a good another $1000 on top. Being a frugal person I'm really reluctant to spend $2000-3000 here, that's a very large proportion of my savings, but I do wonder if the 8-9 frame spinners will be good for me in the longrun.

I don't really know what to look for in a spinner. One concern that I have, is some of my supers have deep honey frames, and some have medium honeyframes. Will I be able to get a spinner that can spin both deeps and mediums?

I've done some internet searching and looked at every extractor available to purchase that's within country. I did some brief searching for overseas products, but they were pretty pricey and I figure the freight would be enormous.

Here are the midrange electric spinners:

http://beekeeping.iwoohoo.com.au/electric-honey-extractors-for-bee-hives/9-frame-electric-honey-extractor-premium-grade/

I'm not sure what radial is, but I don't believe this is a radial extractor; does that matter much? It also doesn't seem to have reserve spinning abilities. This 8 frame one is from the same company:

http://beekeeping.iwoohoo.com.au/electric-honey-extractors-for-bee-hives/8-frame-electric-extractor/

It's a little more costly but does reverse spin and is radial; it looks like it spins a lot faster as well. Will it being 8 frame be an inconvenience compared to 9?

This one is radial doesn't specify if it reverses:

https://www.mydeal.com.au/premium-9-frame-radial-electric-honey-extractor

And then there's this one, I'm aversive to buying it though because the company screwed me around with a beesuit that I bought from them:

https://www.beekeepinggear.com.au/product-page/electric-honey-extractor-eight-frames





I did look at that 20 frame blueprint. I'm mostly just stuck on where I'd find the drum. Acebird says to use a plastic foodgrade drum; where can I acquire one of these? I'm not sure if a 8-9 frame spinner will be enough, sawdstmakr suggested to get a 18-20 frame spinner, but they're thousands so I do wonder if I can just build one instead.

Online Acebird

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2017, 09:23:26 am »
I currently have 25 hives.

You are only just beginning ... Two four frame extractors will beat the pants off one nine frame because you load one while the other is spinning.  However the bottle neck is dealing with the cappings.  The extractor is just one piece of the puzzle.
The first thing I would do is convert the deeps to mediums for honey supers now before you get to 100.  Varying equipment will just make things more complicated down the road.  Or you could use the deeps for brood chambers in the future as you expand.
My extractor would be a PITA to run deeps because the opening is smaller then the dia of the drum.  Cutting the access hole to the size of the drum would weaken the drum walls as it is cut from the bottom to save the threaded fittings in the top and to give the extractor a solid base for feet.

The bent up wire baskets look simple but I would want to see them in person.  Life doesn't always go smoothly and if a frame should come apart while spinning I want to know if the basket is stronger than the frame.  Once distorted even slightly you will have balance issues.
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Offline omnimirage

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2017, 09:39:43 am »
couldn't I just decap the frames.over a bucket? Can they spin both mediums and deeps? do I need to get an extractor to do one or the other? I am aiming to transition the deep box's I have into brood chambers.

Offline gww

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2017, 10:19:28 am »
On the twenty frame home made plan, I think you are missing what the plan is saying as to what the drum is.  The wood box is what holds the honey till you drain it.  The drum is just wire to hold your frames in place while spinning.

Have you lookeds at any home made or bought extractors by watching you tube.  It might give you an ideal of the features you seem to be confused on.  Then again, it might just confuse you.

Good luck
gww

Online Acebird

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2017, 10:26:46 am »
Can they spin both mediums and deeps?
Most extractors can spin both some have a different basket arrangement to go from one to the other.  When you go from a hobby business to a more serious business you will be competing with others that are already doing it.  Now your time is valuable and even more so if you have to hire someone to get it done.  100 hives is probably comfortable for one person to handle but do you want to work for .50/hr?  You are talking about a 4:1 increase.  It might not result is 4 times the output but it will be at least a 4 times increase in work if not more.
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Offline omnimirage

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2017, 07:14:07 pm »
So the honey directly touches the plywood? Isn't that bad for the honey?

I haven't looked at such and I might need to do so.


Yeah 100 hives was thinking way too far in the future. I just want to buy so that I'm set and don't have to buy again and 100 hives is the max I can see myself ever having. I feel 50 is a more realistic number of how many hives I'll expand into.

Offline gww

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2017, 12:09:35 am »
Quote
So the honey directly touches the plywood? Isn't that bad for the honey?

I wouldn't know why, your meat touches a cutting board.  It is in the plan to coat it with a food grade paint which the last I looked at is about any paint once it is cured as long as it is not chipping.  I would think after the first time it would have a wax residue on it anyway.  I know I looked up commecial food rules and wax was suggested in processing of food for metal parts.  One good thing about honey is that it has peroxide in it and naturally puts down bad bactiria.

Wood would not bother me as bad as aluminum or steal due to the acid in honey.

I am no expert but did look up lots of stuff when building mine just trying to be good enough to not do something too bad.
Cheers
gww

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2017, 08:07:08 am »
My father in law has a very old 2 frame extractor that he still uses. It is made of galvanized steel but a lot of the zinc is gone and there is rust in the drum. It is a very thin layer, no peeling. He thinks it is ok.
Jim
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Online Acebird

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2017, 09:12:36 am »
So the honey directly touches the plywood? Isn't that bad for the honey?

The honey already dribbled off the wooden frames so it is use to the plywood.  Do you know anyone that sterilizes their frames before they put them back in the hive?
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2017, 10:25:40 am »
I can crush as strain faster than I can extract... but there is nothing wrong with extracting.
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