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Author Topic: Help with brood disease  (Read 610 times)

Offline yes2matt

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Help with brood disease
« on: May 08, 2022, 04:14:44 pm »
This is a young colony which otherwise appears to be healthy and growing at a reasonable rate. Queen is getting it done. Flow is on.

I noticed the perforated/uncapped brood first. But they are all still white and no discoloration. But you can see in the pics some of the brood (dead) get this black specks on them. And the scales are still in a lot of the cells, bees haven't hauled them out.

And ... I didn't think to do a rope test until I was driving away.

Here are a good pic and close-up of the same pic. Any help?



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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Help with brood disease
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2022, 09:58:46 pm »
Matt I wish I could help you but 'I don't know'.  I would like to know the answer as well. 
:oops:

Phillip
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Help with brood disease
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2022, 10:12:49 pm »
Matt,
I have never seen brood look like that. It looks like the bees are not capping the brood for some reason and it looks like dirt was dropped across the frame and is sticking to the wet brood. If you have one call your bee inspector. It does not look like AFB or EFB. Too white. Michael might know.
Jim Altmiller

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Help with brood disease
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2022, 11:54:52 pm »
Fungus maybe? I have not seen that specific discolouration either. It may be the very early stages of something that we do know and can only identify when it is more advanced. Taking of samples by your area inspector and their lab analysis will solve the mystery.  Use them, call on those beekeeper support services.  That is why they are there.  Make them work for it.  ;)
In the meantime flag the hive and check it every 3 - 4 days to track how it develops and what it ultimately turns into.
The bees will spend the next 4 days undoing all of the wrongs that the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Help with brood disease
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2022, 11:09:06 am »
If it?s just on one frame, could it be a wasp or hornet was eating until the bees cooked the intruder?
I?ve found a dead European hornet in a hive.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Help with brood disease
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2022, 09:27:47 pm »
Mr. Matt:
The black appears to be a fungus.  Close up, top right pupae clearly shows the dense black fades to a slight gray which is due to density of the fungus/mold.  Most likely case is the pupae died and the fungus is secondary.  I cannot determine the genesis of pupae death.  Capped cells normal; demonstrates no pin holes, is good coloring with sound shape, not concave nor convex, no chalking of pupae, no discoloration noted in larva.  Many empty cells noted as appears nurse bees doing a good job?  Picture is viewed with an iPhone 12 pro, small screen.

Not much help, I realize...
Van
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Help with brood disease
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2022, 09:54:51 am »
Looks like pupae that have been uncapped.  I agree it looks more like dirt on them than anything else.  Mostly because the pupae looks wet.  If it was drier and the the "dirt" were more distributed I might suspect chalkbrood. 
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Offline BenC

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Re: Help with brood disease
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2022, 09:17:13 pm »
Chilled brood.  Not enough bees to cover a rapidly expanding brood nest and a cold snap comes along.  Can also happen if frames are out of box too long during an inspection or a manipulation results in a frame being moved toward fringe of cluster.  Bees will clean it up eventually.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: Help with brood disease
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2022, 03:47:16 am »
Chill is doubtful. The affected larvae are in the middle, surrounded by healthy capped brood. Near impossible to chill a few larvae in the middle there without practically killing the whole frame.  Something else is/was going on there.
The bees will spend the next 4 days undoing all of the wrongs that the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Help with brood disease
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2022, 04:39:06 pm »

TheHoneyPump and Mr Vans' answer about fungus may be the correct answer? After reading their replies, I am leaning that way also. Matt let us know if you find the answer please Sir.

Thanks,
Phillip

« Last Edit: June 12, 2022, 07:48:16 pm by Ben Framed »
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

Offline Bill Murray

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Re: Help with brood disease
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2022, 09:46:03 am »
Matt you ever figure this out?

Offline yes2matt

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Re: Help with brood disease
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2022, 03:20:32 pm »
No. It's kind of a pain to call the inspector out because then I need to schedule a visit around the rest of weekend stuff.  These several years of keeping bees and I don't have a very good diagnosis rubric. Most of the "normal" bee disease instruction is about AFB, EFB, nosema, chalk brood, mite testing thresholds, and sometimes DWV or other virus overload evidence.  But the stuff I see is more like this, or dry/unfed larvae during a flow, uncapped pupae, the tiny eggs I posted a couple years ago (I think with MB they were lesser wax moth), etc.  I think there needs to be an advanced bee disease diagnosis class, and just skip all that stuff we've already heard a bazillion times.

That colony came around. They're actually the most productive colony in that yard.  And I work them last because they are p.i.s.s.y! So much as ding the hive tool on the box I'll have four stings in my hands and four more bombing the veil. I really ought to move them out to the farm but I'm askeered to ride them in my car.

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Offline yes2matt

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Re: Help with brood disease
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2022, 03:22:07 pm »
Matt you ever figure this out?
Just to add, I'm going to EAS conference in August. I signed up for the microscopy lab. I got my wife a microscope for her birthday last year maybe she'll let me use it. ;)

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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Help with brood disease
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2022, 05:46:59 pm »
Pardon me, but What does EAS stand for?  :shocked: :grin:

Phillip
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

Online The15thMember

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Re: Help with brood disease
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2022, 07:32:21 pm »
Pardon me, but What does EAS stand for?  :shocked: :grin:

Phillip
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Help with brood disease
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2022, 07:38:08 pm »
Thanks Member  :happy:
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV