Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => EQUIPMENT USAGE, EXPERIMENTATION, HIVE PLANS, CONSTRUCTION TIPS AND TOOLS => Topic started by: twd72 on February 20, 2014, 01:22:48 am
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I am looking for advice and opinions.
I am going to be just a hobby Beek(less the 10 total hives over the next few years) and starting out this year. After reading and pondering over product catalogs what seems like the best investment: Plastic foundation frames or Wood foundation frames. My first hive most likely will be a long lang style constructed by myself. I like the top bar idea but don't want to be limited to non-lang style equipment. Top bars seem to be inexpensive to start due to the lack of foundation frames. So if i build a long lang style hive with foundation frames what are your thoughts about the pros and cons of plastic vs wood.
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I started as a Beek last January and went with wax foundation in wood frames and wired them. This year, out of curiosity and not a huge love for wiring frames, I have purchased some pierco plastic foundation to give it a try....I'm going with wood frames there also.
I get the impression from those I've spoken with that currently use plastic foundation that wood seems to be the much more popular choice. One of the main complaints I've heard about plastic frames is too many nooks and crannies for SHB to hide in....that may not be an issue for your location.
One of the other complaints I hear is people don't like the way they flex and bend.
The other piece of advice I would offer concerning plastic foundation is that you'll get better results if you add more beeswax to the frames....I've been told even if you order them pre-waxed, they just don't have enough.
Good Luck!
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:goodpost: :th_thumbsupup:
personally I will stay with wood wax and wire
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
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I am looking for advice and opinions.
I am going to be just a hobby Beek(less the 10 total hives over the next few years) and starting out this year. After reading and pondering over product catalogs what seems like the best investment: Plastic foundation frames or Wood foundation frames. My first hive most likely will be a long lang style constructed by myself. I like the top bar idea but don't want to be limited to non-lang style equipment. Top bars seem to be inexpensive to start due to the lack of foundation frames. So if i build a long lang style hive with foundation frames what are your thoughts about the pros and cons of plastic vs wood.
Then I would use wood the ears on plastic ages faster than wood, and then breaks off.
foundationless also works for me. when there is a problem like insecticides cut it out and destroy it.
or you could soak it in a swimming pool or a big barrel of water
jay
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If you buy any number at all, you can buy the plastic frames cheaper than you can put a frame together and with no labor time involved. Personally, the only broken frames I have ever had to deal with were stepped on by a marauding cow that knocked over a dead out and walked all over the splash. I like the small cells of Mann Lakes product too.
My next choice would be wooden frames and a good price can be had at Western Bee. Their budget frames are very usable. Maybe 2 0r 3 components out of a hundred frames have to be rejected. The wax coated plastic foundation is very hard to beat also.
Enjoy your long hive. If I could set up a hive in my yard I would like to try that format. However you keep bees you can have a great experience.
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I personally like the wooden frames using either wax or plastic (Rite Cell) foundation.
I have had plastic frames actually warp up from the heat.
The plastic frames has a lot of small crevices and notches that small hive beetles can hide in.
Wooden frames will last several years also.
But I'd stay with wooden frames.
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I would go with the wood frames also. I started with some established hives that had wood frames and wax foundation. Until last year all the new frames I put in were foundationless, there were drawn frames to go between them. Last year I used some rite cell plastic foundation with wax in wood frames. Some of my bees used them well, and a couple of hives didn't really like them. They did use them though. Good luck with what ever you choose.
Joe
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Have lot of both, wood is much nicer, sturdier, repairable, and less spots for SHB....... wood all the way. plastic only if its free.
Plastic foundation is great, but not frames.
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Have lot of both, wood is much nicer, sturdier, repairable, and less spots for SHB....... wood all the way. plastic only if its free.
Plastic foundation is great, but not frames.
I'd have to agree. I have both and don't particularly like the plastic frames. If the top bars were the same dimension as the wood and the frames were solid, I'd be more satisfied with them.
My main issues with them is the SHB hiding spots on the frames. I've filled up a lot of them with silicone, but that's a lot of work.
The preassembled wood frames/plastic foundation aren't much more expensive and there's just no trouble with them.
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I've used the wood with plastic foundation (from Mann Lake and Brushy Mnt.) I like both. I personally have not used all plastic but a fellow beek has and he said there is more differences in sizes from multiple suppliers and if I ever decide to go plastic, I could have his at no cost. (I did not ask him but I took that as a dissatisfaction because he went back to wood.) To each his own.
From what he said, if you go with plastic frames then I suggest sticking with one supplier. -Mike
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Wood is good. Plastic is a poor substitution for wood.
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Wood frames here. I've thrown out all of plastic frames. Junk!
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I prefer wood and plastic but why dont you buy some of each and decide for yourself. Say 20 wood frames with wedge top bars, 10 sheets of crimped wire wax, 10 sheets of plastic and 10 all plastic frames. Then mix them up in the hive. You will find that the bee's will preferr the wood and wax, then the wood and plastic and lastly the all plastic but none will go to waste. The bee's will work them all. I just prefer plastic over the wired wax because its way more durable
Also SHB will not be a issue in SD
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Plastic is fantastic :-D
Wood burns real good :chop: :lau:
mvh Edward :-P
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Naked and natural. - Wood frames, no foundation. They build comb faster than you can imagine and they build the cell size that is natural for them and their health.
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I like foundationless wood frames the best. Cell size is the issue for me. I don't mind plastic frames/foundation if they are the cell size I want. Natural comb I don't have to worry about cell size so much. The bees can decide. The wax is clean. The bees never hesitate to draw it if there is a flow.
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Why can't you use a pressure washer on the plastic frames to get the small crevices and areas clean?
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you can, but its a freking mess water everwhere... need a face shield and rain gear, and something to hold the frames... and yup i have tried. Even tried boiling(the warp to fast)
if your interested there are about 1000 plastic frames here in boxes with pieces of old comb... come get them there free....
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Let them soak in dish washing water for 48-72hrs, or buy a secondhand dishwasher and wash them with or dish washing granules .
mvh Edward :-P
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when someone tells you dont put plastic in your solar wax melter you should believe them. glad my melter only held 1/2 doz
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when someone tells you dont put plastic in your solar wax melter you should believe them. glad my melter only held 1/2 doz
That's funny!
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wood and wax for me. Thats how I started and will stick to it. bought a nuc once with plastic frames/foundation. bees barely drew i out, tossed it when I lost them.
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Less room for small hive beetle to hide
I vote wooden ware
jay
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I do not recognize most of these folks from only 7 years ago right off hand except Michael Bush and JoeD. The discussion was interesting. What do you use?
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Wood and starter strips, I have a handful of plastic frames and a couple of supers of plastic foundation, I interspersed them in between the starter strips. Right now all drawn.
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Current to date posted:
I like one piece plastic (Acorn) in the brood nest. However, I have no SHB here to be concerned about.
2nd runner up is wood frame with plastic sheet foundation. What I hate about these is the amount of burr comb nubbings made between the wood top bars. It is ridiculous and an extreme hazard to rolling and mushing queens.
If I had to go back to wood-wire-wax foundation type I would quite, retire. I?d rather jab a red hot steel nail onto my eyeball. Good for bees but far too many handling and processing issues in the beekeepers wheelhouse.
For a long lang setup, where the top bars are tight together, personally I would most likely go wood bars/frame and the plastic sheet foundation.
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Wood and starter strips, I have a handful of plastic frames and a couple of supers of plastic foundation, I interspersed them in between the starter strips. Right now all drawn.
Rast,
Don?t mix plastic and foundation in the same super. The bees usually just draw the foundation less and not the plastic. If you put all plastic, they will draw it.
Once they are drawn, then you can mix frames any which way.
Jim Altmiller
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Im going to add something about the plastic frames.
I bought some from one of the big box stores because it had small cell. The beatles love them. It is actually crazy how many beatles can be forced into the trenches in the ears.
Hope they wear out soon.
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https://bushfarms.com/beesfallacies.htm#waxplastic