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Author Topic: Winter clusters  (Read 1932 times)

Offline max2

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Winter clusters
« on: December 03, 2023, 12:05:41 am »
This research is of little value to us here in the Subtropics but brings up vital decisions for beekeepers in cold climates
Research challenges widespread belief that honeybees naturally insulate their colonies against cold (phys.org)

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Winter clusters
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2023, 10:23:01 am »
This research is of little value to us here in the Subtropics but brings up vital decisions for beekeepers in cold climates
Research challenges widespread belief that honeybees naturally insulate their colonies against cold (phys.org)

Sounds to be the making an interesting subject Max. Do you have more to say, or have a source or sources which might lead to further discussion on this? Thanks...

Phillip







« Last Edit: December 03, 2023, 10:43:27 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline beesnweeds

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Re: Winter clusters
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2023, 10:52:06 am »
The research doesn't do anything for me and Im in cold country.  I've overwintered in poly, wood hives and insulated wood hives.  The biggest deciding factors for me when overwintering are low mite counts and first year queens raised in the peak of swarm season.  None of those factors are included in the research.  No harm in insulating but it doesnt determine if the colony is going to overwinter in my area.   On the controversial end of the research is the subject of the ethical treatment of bees, somehow we are torturing bees if we dont insulate.  On the positive side I realized this whole time I have been breeding Non Insulated Bees or NIBs I'll call them.  The queens sell for $100.  :cheesy:

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsif.2023.0488
https://phys.org/news/2023-11-widespread-belief-honeybees-naturally-insulate.html
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Offline max2

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Re: Winter clusters
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2023, 04:30:30 pm »
This research is of little value to us here in the Subtropics but brings up vital decisions for beekeepers in cold climates
Research challenges widespread belief that honeybees naturally insulate their colonies against cold (phys.org)

Sounds to be the making an interesting subject Max. Do you have more to say, or have a source or sources which might lead to further discussion on this? Thanks...

Phillip
I had hoped that the link was working - looks like it did not and now I can't find it.
When time permits i will have another look

Offline beesnweeds

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Re: Winter clusters
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2023, 05:45:10 pm »
This research is of little value to us here in the Subtropics but brings up vital decisions for beekeepers in cold climates
Research challenges widespread belief that honeybees naturally insulate their colonies against cold (phys.org)

Sounds to be the making an interesting subject Max. Do you have more to say, or have a source or sources which might lead to further discussion on this? Thanks...

Phillip
I had hoped that the link was working - looks like it did not and now I can't find it.
When time permits i will have another look
See post #2.  Links are there.
Everyone loves a worker.... until its laying.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Winter clusters
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2023, 07:54:01 pm »
Thanks Max, I seen beesnweeds post afterward and assumed his links might be a part of it..  This reminds me of a cold weather experiment that I did last Winter where "TheHoneyPump" had hinted, 'instead of using heat for the control of varroa' (as someone was discussing on still another topic), maybe cold would be worth a try. This I did and left a hive with the top cracked all Winter for experimentation sake. Not only did the hive survive, it thrived...

Phillip

https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=55226.msg503978#msg503978
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline max2

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Re: Winter clusters
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2023, 08:33:59 pm »
Yes, that is the link.
If I read the research correctly - bees seem to know best.
You experimnet is an interesting one too.

"Cold" here during the day in midwinter is about 15C.

I can't recal ever wearing long trousers here. Early mornings used to be " cold'  but a cold mornings means a mild day is ahead.

Definitely NOT cold here right now.

The heat has been a clear signal to get indoors.




Online Ben Framed

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Re: Winter clusters
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2023, 10:58:32 pm »
Thanks Max.

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Michael Bush

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Re: Winter clusters
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2023, 06:01:23 am »
Ventilation in general is a good thing if you don't get too much.  I have upper entrances and that seems to work well for me.

Elisha Gallop was the editor of the American Bee Journal for many years and he said this:

    "I had a neighbor who used the common box hive; he had a two inch hole in the top which he left open all winter; the hives setting on top of hemlock stumps without any protection, summer or winter, except something to keep the rain out and snow from beating into the top of the hive. he plastered up tight all around the bottom of the hive for winter. his bees wintered well, and would every season swarm from two to three weeks earlier than mine; scarcely any of them would come out on the snow until the weather was warm enough for them to get back into the hive.

    "Since then I have observed that whenever I have found a swarm in the woods where the hollow was below the entrance, the comb was always bright and clean, and the bees were always in the best condition; no dead bees in the bottom of the log; and on the contrary when I have found a tree where the entrance was below the hollow, there was always more or less mouldy comb, dead bees.

    "Again if you see a box hive with a crack in it from top to bottom large enough to put your fingers in, the bees are all right in nine cases out of ten. The conclusion I have come to is this, that with upward ventilation without any current of air from the bottom of the hive, your bees will winter well without any cobs."--Elishia Gallup, The American Bee Journal 1867, Volume 3, Number 8 pg 153
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: Winter clusters
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2023, 10:45:26 am »
This research is of little value to us here in the Subtropics but brings up vital decisions for beekeepers in cold climates
Research challenges widespread belief that honeybees naturally insulate their colonies against cold (phys.org)

Quote
"Michael Bush"
Ventilation in general is a good thing if you don't get too much.

Good point Max.. We have members here from the Tropics to the far North and location will dictate practices, needs, and results depending on the beekeepers location..

I would think in Michael Bushs' case, considering 'his' location (Nebraska), "too much" ventilation in 'Winter' would 'absolutely' be relevant and a reality. 

'Location' plays a part in beekeeping...  A rule to follow for a beekeeper in 'one area or location', may not produce the same results or be an absolute rule for beekeepers in other varying locations and circumstances, so the rule for one may not apply to another as a result.
 
Elisha Gallop from Wisconsin is a good example. His location and the effects of Winter 'thereof' on bees are interesting and show his attentiveness to detail of results for 'his location'. His knowledge gained and shared through observation and 'his experience', are commendable for 'his needs' as well as many others..


Phillip







 

« Last Edit: December 07, 2023, 11:03:23 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

 

anything