Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

MEMBER & GUEST INTERACTION SECTION => THE 2ND AMENDMENT => Topic started by: Michael Bush on June 18, 2015, 04:56:26 pm

Title: Make guns illegal
Post by: Michael Bush on June 18, 2015, 04:56:26 pm
Seen on a poster: "If we make guns illegal, then nobody will get shot anymore.  That's how we stopped everybody from doing drugs."
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Eric Bosworth on June 18, 2015, 09:43:44 pm
I like it! Our drug policy has been such a great success!
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: mikecva on June 19, 2015, 12:26:26 pm
Or we could tax the people who shoot someone. Taxing something always works also.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: qa33010 on July 18, 2015, 04:08:57 pm
UH HAUH!
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Michael Bush on July 20, 2015, 09:26:34 am
There you go.  If you shoot someone we will tax you on that plus double your income tax...  That might actually make a dent...
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Hi-Tech on September 25, 2015, 03:52:51 pm
I took a sociology class in college, big mistake, and the professor made a statement.. If we outlaw guns, there will be no more murder..
She claimed to be a Christian (though a very liberal one) so I asked her what kind of gun did Cain use to kill Able? Was it an AR-15, AK-47 or a hand gun?

I was just curious...  I made a D in that class...
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Michael Bush on September 26, 2015, 06:30:59 pm
It's a good thing guns weren't around when Ghenkis Kahn conquered the world.  He might have killed someone...
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Still Learning The Trade on October 12, 2015, 02:13:39 pm
In IA this is how people work. I quote "People are using fireworks anyway, lets make then legal". I'm not against fireworks, but if this is how our "authorities" think we need to rise.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Hi-Tech on October 13, 2015, 12:19:38 pm
You mean creating laws to make guns illegal wont work? Look how well it worked for:
> Cocaine
> Heroin
> Speeding
> Murder
> Theft
> Assault
> Illegal Immigration

Every law on the books is broken on a daily basis by people who break laws. Creating laws to prevent use of a thing is pointless.
If guns kill people then:
> cars cause accidents
> forks cause obesity
> Alcohol causes drunk driving
> water causes drowning

What we need are laws to ban crazy and stupid people. but that wont happen because if it did, a democrat could never be elected...
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Michael Bush on October 13, 2015, 06:16:20 pm
Don't forget that matches and lighters cause arson...
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: iddee on October 13, 2015, 11:34:35 pm
Of course it will work. It did down under.



Australian Gun Law Update
 
Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts....
 
From: Ed Chenel, a police officer in Australia
 
Hi Yanks,  I thought you all would like to see the real figures from Down Under.
 
It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers
more than $500 million dollars.
 
The first year results are now in:
 
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent,
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
 
In the state of Victoria .....alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent.(Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!).
 
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.  There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.
 
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns....' You won't see this on the American evening news or hear your governor or members of the State Assembly disseminating this information.
 
The Australian experience speaks for itself.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Dallasbeek on October 13, 2015, 11:49:06 pm
Iddee, that's a perfect advertising campaign for Lowes and Home Depot: "Augers and  PVC pipes to bury your arsenal in the backyard. Instructions for thwarting metal detectors included."

Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Dallasbeek on October 14, 2015, 12:03:09 am
BTW, does anybody recall zip guns made in the 1950s from car radio antennas, a block of wood and a rubber band?  Shot .22LR ammo and did a lot of harm.  Just a little more sophistication and you've got someting that will shoot .30 cal. ammo. 

Once the genie is out of the bottle....
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: OldMech on October 14, 2015, 12:33:58 am

   i have made the point many times, that a LAW only effects those who are law abiding.
   A lock on a door is only to keep an honest person honest.

   Confiscate the guns of the law abiding people, and you create a market for illegal firearms.. Wait, we already have that...  so I guess it will just mean it makes the illegal ones worth more.
   Confiscate my guns, and the next day i will be armed. I spent several years working as a gunsmith, and the things i saw were startling. I will not be unarmed. i will not use my guns to harm honest people, but I WILL use them in the defense of my life, my family and my home.
  if it means I go to jail for the rest of my natural life.. then so be it. I will at least be capable of protecting my wife, my family or my home one time.
   Rest assured, my wife will then also have the ability to protect herself, our family or our home ONE time after they take me away.

   I have to ask, especially of those of you who are older..  Does it not terrify you to think of a couple young bucks breaking into your home?
   At one time, I knew I was capable of taking care of myself without being armed. As I get older, i also realize that standing toe to toe with someone that wants to harm, or take what I have is no longer possible.
    It has been said, that god created man, but that Sam Colt made them equal.
   An 80 year old lady with the knowledge and skill and will to wield a firearm IS the equal of a twenty year old hooligan with the intent to harm.

   My mother in law lost her husband about six years ago. She is nearing 80 years old. She now lives alone in a BIG house at the end of a dead end street. The crime rate in that area has skyrocketed in the last twenty years. She has a lot of valuable things that she and my wifes father collected through their lifetime in that house. Her ownership of firearms, ALLOWS her to keep on living there, where she wishes to be. I would NOT wish to see her disarmed. It would mean she could no longer live alone in that location. It would break her heart to be forced to leave the house her husband built for her.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: BeeMaster2 on October 16, 2015, 12:58:26 pm
Good point Oldmech. Did you here hilliary's statement that she wants more gun control. Now they are changing the law to make it easy to sue the gun manufactures for gun crimes. If they cannot take the guns, they will stop the manufacture of them.
Jim
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: mikecva on October 16, 2015, 01:28:30 pm
then the guns as well as our cars will be made overseas.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: BeeMaster2 on October 16, 2015, 01:56:15 pm
Wait!
Aren't the gun manufactures too big to let fail.  :angry:
Jim
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: OldMech on October 17, 2015, 01:08:53 am

   According to my nics officer about fifteen years ago, they had, at that time, so MANY laws on the books that even they could not keep track of them all. if they WANT to find something wrong in a gunshop, they WILL, because they have so MANY conflicting laws...  that opened my eyes quite a bit....   Then my licensed gunshop was broken into... and I was treated like a criminal... to the point that it took everything I had NOT to go to jail...   That was the end for me. I sent my books in and sold the vast majority of my equipment. Yes, I folded.
   Its not a matter of if they take guns away, its a matter of WHEN. The ignorance of the folks who want them removed cannot be swayed by fact, statistics, or even MONEY. They carry a belief that the guns are the cause of all our problems. Once they are gone, they will be dumbfounded, and stand around scratching their heads wondering WHY the crime rates are going UP instead of down. But by then, it will be too late.
   take an already corrupt government, and give them ultimate power over an unarmed populace... there will be NO going back.
   There are times that i am glad i am as old as i am. I HOPE I do not live to see the things my grandfathers, father, uncles, cousins, myself, and my son have fought for stripped away. So many thousands of lives lost to protect our RIGHTs, only to have ignorance do what Hitler and so many others failed to do.
   A friend told me he was thinking of voting for Billary...  i told him he may as well put a gun to my head and pull the trigger. Its the same ending.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: buzzbee on October 17, 2015, 10:17:19 am
There you go.  If you shoot someone we will tax you on that plus double your income tax...  That might actually make a dent...

I guess we need to not report a shooting on our tax forms. The tax evasion would probably be more of a crime than the shooting you didn't report on that special form.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: jalentour on November 20, 2015, 10:21:59 pm
On a more positive vein.
Friends visit my farm and always comment about the amount of shooting in the area.  The valleys and hollows echo all weekend long of shooters practicing, training, teaching, learning and generally having fun.  It's fun to try and guess the rounds being shot.  There are a lot of gun owners in my neck of the woods.
If the time to disarm is thrust upon us, I would hate to be the local cops that go ask farmer Jones for his gun(s).  I just don't see it happening in our lifetime.  That would be a very dangerous job.
But, yeah.  Find a good way to hide them.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Michael Bush on November 23, 2015, 09:02:05 am
>Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent,
>Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
>Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

But we only care how many were killed by guns...  The anti-gun people only measure "gun deaths", not crime related deaths... they include all the suicides and all the people killed in self defense as well as all the gang shootings.  Gang shootings are classified as "children" if they are 21 or under...
 
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: OldMech on November 23, 2015, 11:19:51 pm
 Gang shootings are classified as "children" if they are 21 or under...

   Children...   and yet, at 17 years old you can be sent to fight and die for your country... and they cant even legally have a beer...
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: GSF on November 25, 2015, 08:29:16 am
The anti gun crowd is fact proof. Facts are irrelevant, it's what they believe that counts.

 jvalentour, sounds like home. I don't believe it'll be the local law enforcement or the National Guard that'll try to confiscate your guns. Not sure who or when.

Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: OldMech on December 07, 2015, 08:08:54 pm
Removing guns will work just about exactly like prohibition worked for alcohol.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Michael Bush on December 08, 2015, 11:35:17 am
>Removing guns will work just about exactly like prohibition worked for alcohol.

Actually the prohibition worked better because people who drink need a constant supply making it easier to catch them in the act.  Criminals only need a gun and a little ammo to last them a lifetime of crime... they don't need a constant supply.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: herbhome on December 08, 2015, 01:22:33 pm
I may be a little off topic here, but I've often thought if people took a hard look at the death toll in motor vehicles, there would be a movement to ban them forever.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Dallasbeek on December 08, 2015, 03:43:33 pm
I may be a little off topic here, but I've often thought if people took a hard look at the death toll in motor vehicles, there would be a movement to ban them forever.

The death toll from tobacco and alcohol (drunk driving) put most other causes of death to shame.  Even medical misadventure is greater thanngun-related deaths, I think ( but don't hold me to it)
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: OldMech on December 08, 2015, 11:06:38 pm
>Removing guns will work just about exactly like prohibition worked for alcohol.

Actually the prohibition worked better because people who drink need a constant supply making it easier to catch them in the act.  Criminals only need a gun and a little ammo to last them a lifetime of crime... they don't need a constant supply.


    Hadn't considered that. Well said!
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: GSF on December 09, 2015, 09:45:27 am
herbhome, I think I read somewhere that Doctors actually killed more people than guns, then there's the knives, baseball bats, drunk drivers, ect. I think all of these kills more folks that guns.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: herbhome on December 09, 2015, 10:52:11 pm
It's been a long time since I did any research into it but at the time the urban murder rate was driving the gun control people. The urban murder rate was overwhelmingly comprised of drug dealers (many mere children) fighting over turf.

If anyone can figure out how to keep guns out of these kids hands, maybe they can get the crack from them also.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Michael Bush on December 10, 2015, 11:17:20 am
> I've often thought if people took a hard look at the death toll in motor vehicles, there would be a movement to ban them forever.

A typical year in the US auto accidents take about 40,000 lives and maims many more...  Yes, you would think we would get excited about a number like that...  There were 12,253 murders in the US in 2013 (not "gun deaths") and we 3.8 murders per 100,000.  We are #95 from the highest (94 countries have a higher murder rate).  Honduras was the highest at 90.4 per 100,000, Venezuela was next at 53.7 per 100,000...  Do you think there are that many more guns per capita in those countries to cause that difference?  We have more than enough guns to arm every human in the US and they have 24 times the murder rate in Honduras.  Do you think they have 24 times as many guns?  I guess not.  Honduras has a 64.8 per 100,000 "gun death" rate.  The US has a 10.5 per 100,000 "gun death rate".  Obviously they are not all murders.  Many are suicides.  So how do we rank on suicides?  12.1 per 100,000.  #50.  Shouldn't we be #1 since we are so armed and guns are the cause of suicide, right?  We lose 11.6 per 100,000 to cars.  In 2012 that was 36,166.  We actually lose more people to suicide than to guns or cars...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Michael Bush on December 10, 2015, 11:17:52 am
I've got it!  We need to make suicide illegal!!!!
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Kathyp on December 10, 2015, 02:50:45 pm
I had a long rainy day to play with some anti-gun nuts on FB.  The usual "ban assault riffles because no one should have something that can SPAY bullets all over the place".  + the usual and latest talking points put out by the admin.

It's hard to talk to people who hold a position based on bad info, but sometimes it's worth it just to sharpen your arguments.  You may educate one person in the process and hope you at least make them think.

By the end, my friend understood that a semi-automatic weapon behaves in exactly the same way no matter what it looks like.  One trigger pull = one round.  It was a small victory.  next we might tackle velocity, tumble, cavitation, and deformation.....  :grin:  I would love to be in the room when I explain to her that a high velocity round fired into a person at close range is potentially less damaging than, say, a .45 fired from a hand gun at close range.

We must push back even when it seems a hopeless battle. Sometimes I am glad my state legalized pot though   :grin:
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Dallasbeek on December 10, 2015, 02:58:37 pm
"sometimes I'm glad my state legalized pot, though."

Yep, pot improves your patience when dealing with idiots, I guess.  And if they're using it, too, it makes THEM more stupid, huh?
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Hi-Tech on December 10, 2015, 04:28:55 pm
The biggest issue we have is the media. 50 years ago, people still killed people. However, there was no CNN or FOX news on TV 24/7 so it didn't get reported. Local news came on at 5:30 PM and national news at 6. If you were lucky (or unlucky?) enough to catch it, they didn't have time to talk about every single death in America and they certainly couldn't talk about if for hours on end. Now, they have time, and an audience.

Also, you didn't have these nut cases shooting up folks back then for 2 reasons.
1 - you could report someone as being crazy and they came and got them. They didn't give them meds and turn them loose. They put them in the nut house.
2 - They wouldn't get famous (infamous) because they didn't get 5 days of airtime on 7 different channels 24/7

I long for the days when news was 1 hour a night and your kids begged you not to watch it because it was boring...
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Dallasbeek on December 10, 2015, 08:28:22 pm
I found this article from an apparently reputable source that says medical errors are the third highest cause of death in the US, with something more than 400,000 deaths a year caused by shoddy care, mistakes or failure to provide care.


http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2013/09/20/224507654/how-many-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-u-s-hospitals


At the end of the article, I found this jewel:

Dr. David Mayer, vice president of quality and safety at Maryland-basedMedStar Health, said people can make arguments about how many patient deaths are hastened by poor hospital care, but that's not really the point. All the estimates, even on the low end, expose a crisis, he said.

"Way too many people are being harmed by unintentional medical error," Mayer said, "and it needs to be corrected."
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Dallasbeek on December 10, 2015, 08:30:10 pm
I couldn't figure out how to ask in the above post, what about the INTENTIONAL ERRORS?
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Dallasbeek on December 10, 2015, 08:43:16 pm
So let's outlaw medical care?  No, the medical profession needs to clean up its act, literally.  How many times have you seen a physician who failed to wash his/her hands prior to an exam?  I have suffered two infections because of dirty practice.  In one case, I had to have six weeks of regular IV infusions of vancomycin.  in the other, my chemotherapy had to be stopped because of klebsiella contamination in my mediport and the mediport had to be removed.  Both were life-threatening events caused by the same surgeon.  So I'm very lucky to be alive to write this.

Everywhere, these days, we hear the (recorded) warning, "If you see something, say something" and I'm saying if you see a medical person not doing something like washing their hands between patients, say something -- for your own protection.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Hi-Tech on December 11, 2015, 11:21:19 am
I once read a fictitious conversation between a man and God. It went something like this...
Man: God how come you don't stop any of the bad things that happen in this world?
God: I do. I stop a million bad things from happening a day but because they don't happen you don't notice them.

Why do the medical error deaths not cause a stir or demand for reform? Because people do see all of the lives saved by the medical profession. I am not sure of the numbers but I would guess that if you look at every life saved by doctors verses every life lost to errors, the loss would be a very low percentage. People can live with that.

With guns, there are no statistics for the lives saved due to guns. How may hold ups never happened because a punk thought a store clerk might be armed? How many home invasions didn't happen because of the fear of a homeowner with a gun. If you had a crystal ball and could look at all of the "almost happened" situations, the people would see the risk of gun ownership is worth the reward.

As God said in the make believe conversation. Guns saved a lot of lives but because the event never occurred, you didn't notice it.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: herbhome on December 11, 2015, 01:52:55 pm
The thing about motor vehicles is not so much drunk driving,( a no brainer), but using the vehicle as it is intended with horrible consequences. Traveling 60 mph and a deer jumps into the path. A dumb cow crosses the road. 40 cars are following each other in the fog at 60 mph and the first car blows a tire. I'm pretty sure humans were never intended to travel at such speeds, but we are so addicted to the mobility we refuse to consider living without it. I spent my entire career repairing and maintaining heavy, industrial manufacturing machines and I am well aware of the fact that even robustly built and well maintained machines will fly apart at the most inopportune time. I now drive into town 3 or 4 times a month but to my thinking its way too much!
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Michael Bush on December 12, 2015, 01:44:54 pm
>With guns, there are no statistics for the lives saved due to guns.

The anti-gun people think they have some, but those don't even scratch the surface.  I have greeted someone breaking into my house with a gun on four occasions.  I've never shot anyone.  I doubt that any of those made a police report.  Usually when a gun is used to stop a crime no one is shot and I would guess that often no police report is even filed.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: JimW on August 17, 2016, 10:02:55 pm
Late response, but need to dispute the "Ed Chanel" email that quoted bogus crime figures in Australia.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

Overall you won't find many Australians who are against our gun control laws. The figures and lack of mass shootings since the laws came in speak for themselves.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: BeeMaster2 on August 18, 2016, 12:35:13 pm
The same thing happens here everywhere they enact these "GREAT" gun laws. Then they never talk about the skyrocketing crime rates. Chicago, Washington DC, Detroit. All heavily controlled by our great democrats that want us all subservient to the government.
Jim
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: chorrylan on August 18, 2016, 01:06:37 pm
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent,
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

the quoted email and the statistics it asserts are just plain false (sorry).
Whilst I agree with the general idea that prohibition has been shown to be a poor solution to various perceived issues/problems  that specific email/internet-myth is simply reciting fictitious statistics that have been fact-checked and disproven numerous times over many years.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: divemaster1963 on August 18, 2016, 02:10:28 pm
thank god I have never pulled my gun  myself. but back in the eighties my first wife  and I were out and my wife's brothers girlfriend sat for us a druged out guy broke in our house and  got into a bathroom off the kitchen. our infant son saw him and screamed. she grabed a 45 a had under the couch seat and shot 5 shots at him. when we got home the police were there and asked her why there were holes at about 5 1/2 feet in a line in the kitchen wall. she said that was where his head was.  country girls can and do survive!

john
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Kathyp on August 21, 2016, 02:15:37 pm
Quote
the quoted email and the statistics it asserts are just plain false (sorry).
Whilst I agree with the general idea that prohibition has been shown to be a poor solution to various perceived issues/problems  that specific email/internet-myth is simply reciting fictitious statistics that have been fact-checked and disproven numerous times over many years.

can you share the real stats?
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Kathyp on August 21, 2016, 02:19:03 pm
Quote
Overall you won't find many Australians who are against our gun control laws. The figures and lack of mass shootings since the laws came in speak for themselves.

I think that's fine for you guys.  I don't have  a problem with what any other country wants to do.  I choose not to be dependant on law enforcement responding to what has already happened.  By then, it's to late.  I choose to be able to protect myself and mine....and to take out the occasional chicken coop bandit.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: derekm on November 10, 2016, 11:13:51 am
nope - gun laws dont make people safer - its attitude to guns that make the difference
gun laws are only a reflection of the attitude..
IMHO The U.S. Attitude to Guns is the problem.
     Its in the T.V. shows and the discussion over the 2nd Ammendment (not the ammendent its self)

The U.S. populace is subject to a constant propaganda that :

If you have a Gun you are the one with power
If you have a gun you are safe
if you have a gun you are strong
if you have a gun you are in control of the situation
if you have a gun you can get what you want or want done.

Its not the violence of someone being shot but the message behind everytime someone draws a gun on TV or Film. The same message when someone raises a rifle into the air in front of a crowd and says "over my dead body". The same message when someone says in response to a school shooting "we need teachers with guns".
Even the call to "Ban Assault Rifles" makes assault rifles more desireable if you think you have a "big problem"

With all this propaganda Its not surprising that if someone in U.S.  has a problem then they reach for gun and then bad things start to happen.

Fix the propaganda, then  fix the attitude and

 then perhaps think about gun laws - probably more having to have proper training on how to use them safely and accurately - more like a drivers license. Even in the 18th century you dont want your militia to miss or blow their foot off.

Two penn'orth from across the pond


Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Psparr on November 10, 2016, 11:21:49 am
Or maybe parents could start being parents, and teach their kids right from wrong. It's not tv's fault.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Michael Bush on November 10, 2016, 11:22:44 am
>Fix the propaganda, then  fix the attitude

Well, obviously everything you see in a movie to do with guns is either wrong or impossible, but that is just movies.  Everything you've seen about electricity,  plumbing or, for that matter, law, in movies is also wrong or impossible.  I doubt that will ever change, though I wish it would.  Most Americans do not have an attitude problem with guns.  Most rural Americans have dealt with guns all their lives and have a very realistic view of guns.  It's the gang bangers in the city who have almost no actual experience with a gun who have an attitude issue with guns.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: derekm on November 10, 2016, 11:54:43 am
>Fix the propaganda, then  fix the attitude

Well, obviously everything you see in a movie to do with guns is either wrong or impossible, but that is just movies.  Everything you've seen about electricity,  plumbing or, for that matter, law, in movies is also wrong or impossible.  I doubt that will ever change, though I wish it would.  Most Americans do not have an attitude problem with guns.  Most rural Americans have dealt with guns all their lives and have a very realistic view of guns.  It's the gang bangers in the city who have almost no actual experience with a gun who have an attitude issue with guns.
I'm rural person, so i know guns as well.
On TV Even if the Guns are only in the hands of the good guys doing what has to be done its still putting the same message across. How much coverage of guns is just people shooting for sport or vermin control?  Most coverage is guns being used to control people.
Most people live in cities,  most people watch TV.   Unfortunately most people are not completely immune to such a constant influence Advertising and propaganda works even if it isnt designed as such. The number of people who think what happen on TV is real is frightening.The U.S. populace is being "carpet bombed" with a story that guns are for fixing problems with people everynight.   It only takes some to be completely taken in. 
     As an example of how people believe what they see on TV. answer this : "what happens in building if a sprinkler is set off"
a) everywhere in the building gets wet
b) only where the sprinkler is set off gets wet.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Psparr on November 10, 2016, 12:00:56 pm
So let's legislate tv and leave me and my guns alone.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Michael Bush on November 10, 2016, 12:23:45 pm
>So let's legislate tv and leave me and my guns alone.

Or do like Wyoming and teach gun safety in sixth grade to everyone and in the process debunk a lot of myths...

But if you every held someone off with a gun who broke into your house you might decide you ARE safer with a gun...
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Kathyp on November 11, 2016, 02:17:08 pm
No one gave the the Austrailian crime stats, so I looked them up.  It appears their trend has roughly followed ours, and so gun control was not an influence.

http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime.html

Here are the weapons crimes stats.

http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide/weapon.html

It also roughly follows our trends if you control for gang shootings.  They do stab each other a lot!!  :-)  I don't know that Austrailia has the same kind of gang thing we have here in places like Chicago.  gun bans will not help with that. 
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Snowhitsky on November 24, 2016, 04:26:14 am
@Michael Bush

Are burglars in your neck of the woods extraordinarily stupid? I've had my fair share of break-ins in the UK but the burglars had the sense to wait until I was gone on holiday before they acted.

@Kathyp

Although I have no idea what the motives behind stabbings are in Australia, in Spain half the women are murdered by someone they know and it's usually their current or ex-partner. As every instance makes headlines news (57 in 2015), I can tell you knives feature prominently. Probably because guns aren't readily available.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Dallasbeek on November 24, 2016, 12:40:47 pm
My experience has been that crminals of all sorts are incredibly stupid.  Maybe that's why they become criminals.  Whether in MB's neck of the woods or in the UK or Spain, crime is a stupid career choice -- at least on the level under discussion here.  Some Wall Street criminals might disagree, but I wouldn't want to spend time behind bars for any level of gains.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Michael Bush on November 24, 2016, 12:56:53 pm
>Are burglars in your neck of the woods extraordinarily stupid? I've had my fair share of break-ins in the UK but the burglars had the sense to wait until I was gone on holiday before they acted.

I've never had a sober person kick in my door yet... but drunk people and stoned people have.   

"Now the trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed."C.S. Lewis, The Magician's Nephew, one of the Chronicles of Narnia series
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: divemaster1963 on November 24, 2016, 01:20:38 pm
micheal. never knew you where a narnia nut too. i liked the series also. had to watch them with the grandkids and got hooked. the things we due for them :tongue:.

john
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Michael Bush on November 26, 2016, 11:09:20 pm
>never knew you where a narnia nut too.

Well it comes with the territory.  I'm a C.S. Lewis fan...
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Kathyp on November 28, 2016, 06:30:48 pm
Quote
Its not the violence of someone being shot but the message behind everytime someone draws a gun on TV or Film

Lol.  I was just watching a Brit cop show on Netflix.  Bad guy had a gun.  cop had to run and hide because he was not armed.  Great message!
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Michael Bush on November 29, 2016, 02:50:28 pm
>Bad guy had a gun.  cop had to run and hide because he was not armed.  Great message!

When attacked by the bad guys they just say:
"Stop!  Or I'll yell stop again!!!"
or
"If you don't stop, I'll use harsh language!!!"
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Snowhitsky on December 01, 2016, 05:05:38 am
No. They take cover, keep the criminal in sight and then call the armed unit to deal with him. It happened to me at a military show in the 90s in the UK. A couple of young tourists thought it would be fun to aim pen lasers from a hotel window at a couple of my men on guard duty at the gate. Not a very smart move as we were expecting trouble from the IRA. The soldiers took cover, we asked for an armed response team from London's Metropolitan Police which duly stormed the room and arrested the pranksters. No one was hurt and the idiots were deported the next day.

Here's a list of police officers killed on duty in the UK since 1900:

http://www.policerollofhonour.org.uk/roll_of_honour/homicides/homicide_list_1900.htm

What is instructive about it is how few are killed by criminals. Care to compare this with US figures? Anyone?

Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Psparr on December 01, 2016, 06:42:18 am
No. They take cover, keep the criminal in sight and then call the armed unit to deal with him. It happened to me at a military show in the 90s in the UK. A couple of young tourists thought it would be fun to aim pen lasers from a hotel window at a couple of my men on guard duty at the gate. Not a very smart move as we were expecting trouble from the IRA. The soldiers took cover, we asked for an armed response team from London's Metropolitan Police which duly stormed the room and arrested the pranksters. No one was hurt and the idiots were deported the next day.

Here's a list of police officers killed on duty in the UK since 1900:

http://www.policerollofhonour.org.uk/roll_of_honour/homicides/homicide_list_1900.htm

What is instructive about it is how few are killed by criminals. Care to compare this with US figures? Anyone?

And what if it wasn't a laser and actually a gun?
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Dallasbeek on December 01, 2016, 11:45:15 am
"What is instructive about it is how few are killed by criminals".

What do they call someone who commits homicide in the U.K.?  Here, we call them criminals.

Okay, I know what you're saying.  Just pulling your chain.
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: gww on December 01, 2016, 01:51:17 pm
Snow.....
What sorta surprized me was the lack of conviction and lower punishment convictions untill about the 1970 mark when it seemed the death rate increases as well as the conviction rate as well as the seriousness of the charge they were convicted on.  When did the gun laws change and am I just immagining a trend of some sort?
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Make guns illegal
Post by: Snowhitsky on December 01, 2016, 03:23:52 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_policy_in_the_United_Kingdom

Real restrictions didn't really start until after WW1 by the looks of it.