Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => TOP BAR HIVES - WARRE HIVES - LONG HIVES => Topic started by: solidrock on January 09, 2015, 02:50:58 pm
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Hello Everyone,
I am a beekeeper up in Duluth MN (the temps with the wind are ~ -40F today and for the past week) and I am looking for some information on the Northern European long hives that I have seen pictures of from Russia and Finland etc. I have kept Kenyan top bar hives, warre hives and foundationless Langstroth hives in the past up here. I tried overwintering 6 Kenyan hives for 2 winters with zero success. Warre hives do well up here but due to the nature of the frames they are not that easy to deal with. They overwinter well because of the 12"x12" ID.
The Northern long hives that I am talking about are the ones that you can stick Langstroth frames into but they have styrofoam insulation on the outside of the first box and then they built another box outside of that. So they are very well insulated plus they normally have a blanket or bag of wool or some other type of insulation on top of them under the cover. I am basically looking at information on how they manage those types of hives or if they are kind of like managing a Kenyan hive. If anyone has any experience working with them I would love to find out more about them. Especially if you are a commercial beekeeper.
Any info on them would be appreciated. I teach alternative beekeeping classes at the North House Folk School in Grand Marais, MN so I was looking at some management info on them so I could teach building the hive.
I have included 4 photo's of the hives I am talking about.
Thanks,
Eric
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solidrock, first off, Welcome. You may want to ask this question in the top bar/Warra---- thread or the main posting forum. I don't have any experience to share with you on your question. Again, welcome.
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I have no experience with this particular hive, but my experience with long hives in general is that they are not the best in cold weather. It is much more difficult for bees to move horizontal across combs than it is to move vertically up combs in winter. I am also a strong proponent of insulated Langstroth hives and the advantage they provide. Without good insulation, I would say you are fighting an uphill battle, but with insulation you may be OK. Along with good insulation, I also believe in reduced hive volume which is easier for the bees to manage and keep warm. With a long hive, you may want to consider and insulated follower board to reduce the occupied volume for winter.
Although my climate isn't quite as cold as yours (-4F here yesterday without wind) I easily overwinter in one 10-frame deep polystyrene hives without feeding.
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Hello Everyone,
I am a beekeeper up in Duluth MN ...
I have included 4 photo's of the hives I am talking about.
Thanks,
Eric
A book you should read, very interesting even if you do not agree withe the extra large frame concept
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Aoh3Q0qbL._SX322_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg) (https://www.amazon.com/Keeping-Bees-Smile-Apiculture-Gardening/dp/0984287353)
and have a look on David Heaf's pages on long deep hives
(http://www.dheaf.plus.com/framebeekeeping/erb_floor%20extended.jpg) (http://www.dheaf.plus.com/framebeekeeping/modified_einraumbeute.htm)
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Although your reply was no doubt well-intentioned - the OP only made this one post ... back in January 2015 ... so I strongly suspect that he will not be reading your suggestions.
LJ
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Okay, I know this original post was-forever ago- but I do have to comment about the book "Keeping Bees with a Smile". I bought the book and even through it may not be about a style of keeping that one may be interested in-
Chapter 4 "How Bee Colonies Winter and How to Make Wintering as Successful as Possible" alone is well worth the price of the book. Mr. Lazutin has an excellent ability to write about some pretty scientific stuff in a way that is very understandable.
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If you're interested in outdoor over-wintering methods using double-walled structures with insulation in-between (which is what the OP was enquiring about), then there are several sources of well-proven techniques.
One is the classic Danish/Swedish Trogbeute hive, another is the use of Over-Wintering Cases by Karl Killion (Honey in The Comb, 1951), the triple winter-cases of Charles Dadant (System of Beekeeping, 1920) and 'The Preparation of Bees for Outdoor Wintering', E.F.Phillips (Farmers Bulletin 1012 rev 1922), which can be sourced via the Internet Archive. The Phillips document is particularly good, and covers single, double, and quad hive set-ups.
On a personal note, I am very much in favour of deep framed hives - during the last few years I've been running several with 12" deep frames, and I'm currently trialling one hive with 14" deep frames (in the style of Charles Dadant), with excellent results thus far. My over-wintering success rate (>50 hives) has been 100% for the last 5 years.
LJ