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Author Topic: No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It  (Read 2301 times)

Offline bwallace23350

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No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It
« on: July 18, 2017, 09:47:23 am »
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/07/13/536884827/no-offense-american-bees-but-your-sperm-isnt-cutting-it

According to the WSU research team, the root cause of the U.S. honeybees' vulnerability to varroa is a dwindling gene pool that has left them short on genetic traits that help honeybees resist varroa elsewhere in the world.

"Honeybees aren't native to America," Cobey says. "We brought them here. But the U.S. closed its borders to live honeybee imports in 1922, and our honeybee population has been interbreeding ever since."

WSU has monitored the genetic diversity of honeybee queens in Washington and California since 1994, showing a steady decline.

Offline Aroc

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Re: No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2017, 10:35:28 am »
Why were the borders closed to bees way back then?  Hopefully someone will wise up and be able to bring in some diversity....that is after all what this country was founded on.
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Offline iddee

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Offline little john

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Re: No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2017, 12:03:17 pm »
A touch of deja vu ... http://www.beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=50385.0

Re: 1922 - my guess is that it had something to do with the Isle of Wight Disease (probably tracheal mites, but folk are still arguing about this) which decimated large numbers of UK colonies at around that time.

About time that law was revoked, imo.
LJ
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Online Michael Bush

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Re: No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2017, 01:07:56 pm »
>Why were the borders closed to bees way back then?

Tracheal mites.  Varroa mites.  Viruses.  Tropilaelaps... but the driving force was Tracheal mites at that time.

Yes, there were bees coming in from Australia (and still are via swarms from Canada...)  It's not accurate to say that no genetic material came in since 1922...  The Russians were brought into the US in 1994  and kept in quarantine on Grande Terre Island in Louisiana for three years and then bred and distributed all over the US.  I know of Buckfasts coming in via Australia back in the early 2000s... 
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Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2017, 01:36:40 pm »
It's not accurate to say that no genetic material came in since 1922..

Agreed, good point Mr. Bush, however I believe Susan Cobey was speaking in relative terms.  I have talked with Susan Cobey, bee geneticists, world renowned expert and shared many texts with this expert.  I want to assure the reader I cannot speak for Ms. Cobey and I am stating my opinion was "relative" to other species such as cattle in which embryos are shipped world wide maintaining genetic diversity in cattle whereas honeybees are restricted when compared to.  Blessings

Offline bwallace23350

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Re: No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2017, 02:28:34 pm »
I thikn we could all agree that there has been relatively little genetic diversity since then. My question for wild colonies is why do many of them appear black? ARe they German decent or are they what?

Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2017, 03:27:51 pm »
The German black bee was introduced into the US in the early 1900's.  The German bees were aggressive, extremely aggressive so they were abandoned and were replaced with the Italian.  Other strains of gentle black bees in Europe from isolated mountainous regions were also brought into the US.  I don't know the precise date. 

Offline bwallace23350

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Re: No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2017, 05:32:10 pm »
So it it possible that they are part german?

Offline little john

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Re: No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2017, 05:44:21 pm »
My question for wild colonies is why do many of them appear black? ARe they German decent or are they what?

Yellow isn't a 'true' honey-bee colour, but results from the complete absence of melanin, in the same way as blue eyes and blond hair result from the absence of melanin in humans.
 
Melanin is produced from the amino acid tyrosine, with the biochemical pathway from tyrosine-to-melanin containing approximately 6 steps. In the honey-bee there are 6 genes (known as the polygenes) which, when homozygous (that is, an allele pair being identical) operate as inhibitors at each step. Thus, if 3 (say) of these genes are homozygous, a brown bee will result, and so on ... Zero homozygous polygenes will result in black.

So - with their very mixed parentage, honeybee mongrels have very little chance indeed of having all 6 polygenes homozygous, so yellow mongrels are rarer than rocking-horse poo. For all intents-and-purposes then, feral bees are invariably black, as black is dominant over every other colour, including yellow.


Interestingly (perhaps ?), in addition to the 6 polygenes which create the various shades of colour, there is also a 7th gene (b1) which codes exclusively for black, quite independently of the polygenes.  This gene produces black or not-black (not-black being a function of the 6 polygenes) in a true Mendelian way - so it can be used with 'golden' stock as a tool to demonstrate purity of that particular genetic line.

Hope this helps.
LJ
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Offline bwallace23350

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Re: No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2017, 05:46:51 pm »
Thanks for that information

Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2017, 07:30:14 pm »
LJ:  I had no idea we had a bee geneticist on board.  Quantitative, does this describe the bee poly gene??  And cordovan, is this homozygous for all ploy gene or different expression all together?

You keep on giving details, amazing details of genetics and biochemistry ( metabolical pathways) I have long sense forgotten.  I can learn much, please advise about the cordovan genetics.  Blessings

Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2017, 07:34:09 pm »
Bwallace, my mistake,,,,,, but take it as a compliment please,,,  sorry LJ.

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2017, 07:28:43 am »
LJ
 We have a queen who has no black on her thorax or head, she is a little bit red more than straight yellow.
Her offspring are quite distinctive when they land on the hive.
How does this happen?

Online Michael Bush

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Re: No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2017, 11:44:57 am »
>The German black bee was introduced into the US in the early 1900's.

You mean early 1600s?  By late 1800s everyone was trying to change over to Italians and the German black bee was the bad guy.

>How does this happen?

Cordovan genes.
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Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2017, 01:43:54 pm »
Yes Mr. Bush.  I was quoting an article on web I read some time ago, so  I stated "early 1900", consider the source was in error as I in repeateding.  I'll take your word as actual, more correct.  Thanks for the corrrction.  Blessings

Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2017, 03:41:01 pm »
Mr. Bush, just out of couriousity I googled the German Black Bee.  The dates you stated are correct, importation was halted in the early 1900's due to aggression.  I don't wish to redirect this thread so in brief, I also read the following: the Nazis were involved with honey bees,,,, Trying to create super duper (my wording)honey bees.  Blessings

Offline bwallace23350

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Re: No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2017, 03:47:40 pm »
Why was the GErman bee more aggressive? Were they not subject to beekeepers trying to raise gentler bees like the rest of the European honey bees? Does anyone still keep them?

Offline paus

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Re: No Offense, American Bees, But Your Sperm Isn't Cutting It
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2017, 04:06:08 pm »
I am not sure what a German bee is, buutt , I have a wild swarm that are shiny black, and I think they are in a grove of large oaks.  I see them on my open feeders so I put a feeder closer to the direction they flew.  By watching them I am sure they are in those oaks.  I set a swarm trap about 150 yards away and another over a quarter mile away in good formerly successful locations but never have caught a black swarm. In my teens I had a hive of black bees, the local beeks called them "native bees" They were BAD but a good honey producer.