Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Glass or PET Containers  (Read 6454 times)

Offline Bamboo

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 231
  • Gender: Male
Glass or PET Containers
« on: February 15, 2018, 10:23:01 pm »
Hi All
Have recently been able to take up beekeeping again here in Oz after having bees for years in NZ.
With the first harvest in I am deciding on packaging and labels etc.
My question is what does the customer prefer as far as packaging is concerned Glass jars or PET jars. With China now almost refusing to take any recycling materials do you think that there will be an increasing demand for glass given it is far easier to reuse.
My gut feel it is glass but would like to know of your own experiences.
Thanks in advance.

Offline eltalia

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1170
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2018, 12:13:01 am »
errrm... real glass, use no compounds.

Question.
Duzya b'keep in wellies, still? :-D

Welcome Bro...

Bill

Offline Bamboo

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 231
  • Gender: Male
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2018, 12:24:25 am »
Thanks for the welcome Bro.
And......as it happens yeah easy to slip on but we call them gumboots  :cheesy:

Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 8110
  • Gender: Male
  • Just do it
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2018, 09:15:18 am »
PET containers are easier to ship and some customers prefer the ability to squeeze the container.  But if you are in an organic crowd glass will be preferred.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline BeeMaster2

  • Administrator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13494
  • Gender: Male
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2018, 09:54:19 am »
A lot of my customers like pint and quart glass jars and a lot of customers prefer squeezable bear jars so I do both.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline little john

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1537
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2018, 12:58:23 pm »
There are government-backed anti-single-use-plastic movements developing in the UK and mainland Europe - looks very likely these will extend further into other regions.  I'd be inclined to choose glass.
LJ
A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping - http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com

Offline eltalia

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1170
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2018, 03:57:13 pm »
Thanks for the welcome Bro.
And......as it happens yeah easy to slip on but we call them gumboots  :cheesy:

In Quinslund?

... sorry, couldna resist that wide open door :-D

I do not market the honey, but if I did it would be only
under glass, proper glass. If someone wanted something else
they would need to BYO container or go buy Capilano..heh.

Bill

Offline Bamboo

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 231
  • Gender: Male
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2018, 05:05:49 pm »

In Quinslund?

... sorry, couldna resist that wide open door :-D

Mate used to it! They are also good for alerting our black belly friends (of which there are many around here) that I am on my way.
At your lat you must need aircon to keep the girls cool. Any special challenges keeping bees at your temps?

Offline eltalia

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1170
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2018, 08:31:19 pm »

"In Quinslund?

... sorry, couldna resist that wide open door :-D"

Mate used to it!
Yeh.. I reckon, standard initiation ritual for K1W1s --- in my Life experience.
Longtime fan of John Clarke and Murray Ball (Wal &Dog) both Countries
are so much richer for the sharing.
Blow the froth off a few pots when reading my posts..heh :-))

Quote
They are also good for alerting our black belly friends (of which there are many around here) that I am on my way.
At your lat you must need aircon to keep the girls cool. Any special challenges keeping bees at your temps?
For many many a year I followed what was taught me (both formally
and in field)  running standard 10frame Langs, ventilated bottomboards
and ventilated migratory lids, all with the same woes my brethren also
endured.
Then it came to me - over a box(slab) or two of XXXX - there had to be another way.
I went down many a dry gully to finally get to somewhere that works
in maintaining colonies at near on swarm conditions.
Simple, really.. let the bees choose.
So today every super has a 60mm screened penetration at the top (below
frame rest) and felts (8mm wide) fitted to the bottom edge.
Migratory lids are filled with 50mm of polyurathane - no vents - with a
fixed in place polycarb liner inner,and again, felts to the edge.
Entrances are full width, fully open all year on colonies at "critical mass", and
are fitted with an adjustable bar for locking down, or queen restriction.
Bottom boards are one piece, wholly solid with 8mm risers fitted to maintain
 beespace.

This last week we (like you) have had record breaking heat swells where
every day has seen at least 35celcius @45% rH. No colony "bearded" and
fanning was minimal. Interestingly enough my newest adventure into
wholly built polyurathane walls -  without the ventilation penetrations
mentioned above - has seen no bearding and little to none fanning in the
same conditions. These colonies are a lot smaller at maybe 20K of bees
and in a space of maybe 30L max. That field testing goes on.

And yes... Joe Blakes (snakes) will always run first, bite last, on hearing us.
One exception is our Eastern Brown aka "Mulga Snake" which in September
will hunt you down and killya... if you carnt climb a tree in ya gumboots :-))

Cheerio... maaate

Bill

Offline Bamboo

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 231
  • Gender: Male
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2018, 03:49:48 am »
Hi Bill
Sorry about the tardy reply had one all written and then some idiot closed the tab..oh well worse things happen at sea! And Yes I am a sailor aren't all K1W1's ?
Anyhow..love a thinking man , I can see that you don't accept accepted wisdom and look for a better way.
As a newbie to OZ beekeeping especially in the sub tropics it has raised all sorts of new issues never encountered across the ditch, shb, cane toads, (altho having the hives in the air is easier on the back) diseases and high temps etc. I was used to making sure they were warm enough with wind breaks and no draughts! To be fair there are issues there (see Tutin honey) that didn't exist when I was a beek as well.
Have also been thinking along the lines of cooling for the hives had been thinking about polystyrene in lid but then was stumped as to ventilation holes or more so the position of them.
Isn't polyurethane incredibly heavy and expensive? Is the polycarbonate acting as a hive mat or what? When you say  60mm  screened penetration under the frame, is it a circle or rectangle and how big if rectangle? What is the purpose of the felts? Do you have any pics?
Do you mold your own polyurethane or do you have a contact that does it for you?
Cheers
Mark

Offline eltalia

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1170
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2018, 11:02:04 pm »
Give us 10 Mark... I have a bit on my plate after some huge storms and now..
me beeatch has come in esterus (sp) so I have lost me best offsider to love..
.. silly bugger is all goggleyed and pacing his cage. So no guard on me ute
from the Vandel Family... bugger!

On toads... don't fall for the ol' "whack 'em on two masonry blocks an'
she'll be right", ol' Dazza has that one beat
Toads will leap up to grab a bee and they also "castle" piling on top pf each
other. The entrance has tp be a minimum of 400mm (16") and no weeds
or grass around. That height also deters some insect loving Joe Blakes (snakes)
one of which is... you guessed it, the Eastern Brown.
You never heard it here buuut I know a bloke - no names no pack drill - who
leaves a spread cast net in the vacinty of a bearding colony. That pharks ' em.
Wraps them and packs them in one go.. all "hands off".

Bill

Offline eltalia

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1170
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2018, 07:03:04 pm »
Not forgotton Mark.. jes busy and working what sun we are getting, place
is a mess and bees are all sulking in their combs :-(
      BBS

Bill


Offline eltalia

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1170
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2018, 08:44:08 pm »
@Bamboo
"Isn't polyurethane incredibly heavy and expensive? Is the polycarbonate acting as
a hive mat or what? When you say  60mm  screened penetration under the frame, is it
a circle or rectangle and how big if rectangle? What is the purpose of the felts? Do you
have any pics?
Do you mold your own polyurethane or do you have a contact that does it for you?
Cheers
Mark"

Okay, back in the land of the living I post this catchup Mark.
Hoping you still have your ears on, like ;-)

Don't confuse polycarb and polyfoam (polyurathane), each has their merit
with user choice being the decider. I use polyfoam sheet only in building my own
LLTBH (long Lang style topbar) and canned foam in insulating all lids.!
The KNAUF product I have found very useful - available from Bunnings.
(pix attached)
All my vents are made by holesaw - the example discussed uses a 50mm blade on a
6mm mandrill. Be carefull using these in pine, they bite, bigtime!
Felts can be made from anything from board game matting to polyfibre blanket. I have
attached examples, the lid example being from a protege of mine - as can be seen the
carpentry... beats mine by a country mile!! :-}
I have also included one of my trapout boxes showing a finished bottom
located penetration, more to demonstrate how well, bees work with these
in utilising the greater space for ventilation. They open and close them at their own
desire.
Trust all that answers many questions beyond those you ask, and wish you well in your
builds ;-)

Bill

____
update;
... no idea on why the other attachments are not uploading, beats me.
I will place them offsite and post a link tomorrow.
I was also remiss in not reading Mark's post in full.
The "polycarb" he refers to is my mention of the underside of the lid.
I have a quanity of 3.5mm polycarb sheeting from which I cut liners
for lids. Once lid is foamed and planed level I screw the liner in place
with some sealant.
A completed lid is flatout weighing a kilogram(2.2lbs)


http://tinypic.com/r/28jp07/9
http://tinypic.com/r/35co3de/9
http://tinypic.com/r/15484md/9
http://tinypic.com/r/21a0he9/9










« Last Edit: March 17, 2018, 07:20:17 pm by eltalia »

Offline Bamboo

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 231
  • Gender: Male
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2018, 05:22:55 pm »
@Bamboo
All my vents are made by holesaw - the example discussed uses a 50mm blade on a
6mm mandrill. Be carefull using these in pine, they bite, bigtime!


Hi Bill
No pics came thru maybe your fast internet up there!
Know exactly what you mean re hole saw! I have found if you let it do the work  and not put too much pressure on it won't try to rearrange the tendons in your wrist! But we are an impatient lot. However a drill press would be a nice bit of kit but still you would need to clamp it to prevent it becoming a pine propeller, if you know what I mean.

Back to the original subject of this post which was glass or PET. I decided after doing extensive market research, a sample of at least 12 people,  :happy: to go with square glass 500gm jars. Have just finished doing a Plant Expo ( we have lots of plants as well) down in Brisvegas and took some of the honey down to sell as well. The overwhelming response was that they loved the glass and also the label. Was selling at $10 for 500gm jar and it was walking out the door. Was doing tasting and some who were not interested after tasting went wow I gotta have some. So very pleased with first marketing foray to the public in Oz.

Offline eltalia

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1170
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2018, 06:13:22 pm »

Hi Bill
No pics came thru maybe your fast internet up there!

Tis akin to watching wax set :rollseyes:
I'll get onto it, directly like.... listening to Macca while I work :)

Quote
Back to the original subject of this post which was glass or PET.

I reckon you have just handed the OP the answer, in a single line
 too..!  Sharing is rewarding, as they say :)

Bill



Offline max2

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1188
  • Gender: Male
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2018, 06:29:16 pm »
Glass - well choosen.

We where at the Witta market yesterday. A good day too.

I wish we could get $ 10 for 500g. We are getting $ 7. Our competition is selling for $ 9 for 1 kg. This is not a wealthy area but is close to home.

Offline Bamboo

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 231
  • Gender: Male
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2018, 07:19:24 pm »
Hi max2
Yes I guess it depends on the area you are selling. In all my years of selling lots of products not just honey I NEVER price myself against the competition. If everyone is going to price cut then it is a race to the bottom and there will always be someone with deeper pockets than what you have no matter what the industry.
I wasn't the only one selling honey at the expo, one "competitor" was selling 500gm for $5, nice guy and all that but no idea. Sure he sold plenty at that price but I had no problem selling mine at $10.

You have to add value, tell a story why your honey is worth $10 probably more and that it is a bargain at $10. Let them taste it, engage the customer, tell them that each jar requires bees to fly over 180,000km, why you use glass and not plastic, etc etc. People are fascinated by stories, they like to know that they are buying something special, sell the health benefits of raw honey. With each jar you sell you want to create a client for life so that they keep coming back. Price then is never an issue.

Cheers
Mark

Offline eltalia

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1170
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2018, 07:25:55 pm »
Hi max2
Yes I guess it depends on the area you are selling. In all my years of selling lots of products not just honey I NEVER price myself against the competition. If everyone is going to price cut then it is a race to the bottom and there will always be someone with deeper pockets than what you have no matter what the industry.
I wasn't the only one selling honey at the expo, one "competitor" was selling 500gm for $5, nice guy and all that but no idea. Sure he sold plenty at that price but I had no problem selling mine at $10.

You have to add value, tell a story why your honey is worth $10 probably more and that it is a bargain at $10. Let them taste it, engage the customer, tell them that each jar requires bees to fly over 180,000km, why you use glass and not plastic, etc etc. People are fascinated by stories, they like to know that they are buying something special, sell the health benefits of raw honey. With each jar you sell you want to create a client for life so that they keep coming back. Price then is never an issue.

Cheers
Mark
Yer got my vote, bloke..even I [!!!] would buy honey offn ya :cool:

Links are fixed now - in my earlier post.

Bill

Offline Bamboo

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 231
  • Gender: Male
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2018, 09:40:14 pm »
Ah now I see...pic worth a thousand..... look great.
Thanks for the vote.
Cheers
Mark

Offline max2

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1188
  • Gender: Male
Re: Glass or PET Containers
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2018, 11:13:28 pm »

You have to add value, tell a story why your honey is worth $10 probably more and that it is a bargain at $10. Let them taste it, engage the customer, tell them that each jar requires bees to fly over 180,000km, why you use glass and not plastic, etc etc. People are fascinated by stories, they like to know that they are buying something special, sell the health benefits of raw honey. With each jar you sell you want to create a client for life so that they keep coming back. Price then is never an issue.

I do all this but in an area where people turn each dollar twice before they spend it, price does come into it.
We have been doing this market since it started and are not complaining. Just wish I was closer to Noosa:)

The Witta market is a monthly event - not a once  ayear opportunity

 

anything