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Author Topic: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)  (Read 1333 times)

Online Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2022, 06:56:34 am »
The first I heard of Fire Ants was in an article written by Bruce Brady of Brookhaven Mississippi in a free bi-monthly magazine distributed by the State of Mississippi which featured Outdoor articles of 'mainly' hunting and fishing. Bruce was a 'well know' Author at that time. He was either a regular, or free lance writer for 'Outdoor Life Magazine', which was in the top tear of the most popular Hunting and Fishing magazines in the United States of America at that time. You could find a copy at every barber shop in a time before the internet and youtube. A time when many country boys 'scraped' up 60 cents :grin: in order to afford and get ahold of this prized printed, monthly magazine of outdoor reading and adventure.

Bruce warned of the invasive Fire Ant and what was to be expected in my State. He was right. Just a few years later I found my first, easily identified Fire Ant Hill on the Mississippi/Alabama State line while hunting with my cousins. In fact I found many there. The large ant hills were just as Bruce Brady had described. Not long afterward 'and not before', they were in my area as well, which happened to be about the time these three species was 'recognized' in my location and about the time quail slowly began disappearing. (and not only these three species, their were others as well). :shocked: As Si Robertson might say, "That's a fact Jack" lol  :wink::grin:

Im not suggesting invasive species was the demise of quail in my area but I am stating when these three were recognized in my home location, the quail numbers began dropping as well. 
Coincidental with spiders? I would say most defiantly, the others? I wonder but do not know. I think it may be some of that, as well as changes in farming, land management, and other reasons combined as others have written above.

Phillip
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Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2022, 07:03:58 am »
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Jeremiah 5:21 King James Version 
Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2022, 07:32:16 am »
I do see and hear a lot more coyotes.  Back in 1970 you could get $50 for a prime coyote hide ($384 in 2022 dollars due to inflation).  Now you get about $40 for a prime ($40 in 2022 dollars).  That's about 10 times as much back in 1970.  Back then it was worthwhile to go coyote hunting for profit.  I also see more foxes, owls, hawks, eagles etc.  I'm sure they all eat quail.  Not to mention raccoons, skunks and possums.  I know they both eat chicken eggs and probably are just as fond of quail and pheasant eggs.  The other day I bet I saw 30 raccoons in 40 minutes on my way to work.
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2022, 12:08:29 pm »
Quote from: Ben Framed on December 07, 2022, 05:53:04 am
As stated above; The first we heard of the brown recluse (at my location) was when I was a young boy, it was all over the news in Memphis Tn. as well as the news papers. Is wasn't long before we begin seeing them 'or noticing them'. We did not know them as brown recluse at that time, they were called fiddlers because of the 'indisputable' fiddle shape in their back. But according to Gertsch by 1958 the spider was already here. It wasn't until the spider was broadcast on the news, about 1970ish that we began noticing them in my area... By the way, I have never seen a spider with exact same shape as the Brown Recluse that 'did not' have the fiddle shape on its back. I have looked at many through the years up close and never failed to see the fiddle, and never needed a microscope to see it...   :grin:
You don't need a microscope to see the fiddle, you would need a microscope to identify the spider correctly at the species level.  The fiddle IS a good sign of a recluse, but it's not the only thing to look at.  For example, recluse spiders have 3 pairs of eyes instead of 4, so if you have a spider with 8 eyes, then it's not a real recluse.  Southern crevice spiders, especially the females, look very similar in shape, color, and size to the recluses, and sometimes they have a fiddle behind their eyes too.


I don't doubt at all that you see recluses, I'm sure you do.  I just wanted people to know that identifying one for certain isn't as easy as just looking for any brown spider with a fiddle, because a lot of publications and hearsay make it sound like it is that easy.

https://www.burkemuseum.org/collections-and-research/biology/arachnology-and-entomology/spider-myths/myth-violin-shape-brown

   
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2022, 04:40:52 pm »
Reagan I do not wish to continue disputing you but at the same time I feel it necessary for the sake of clarity to post the following.
Since your last post, I have done a search of The Southern Crevice Spider for my own benefit and education. As followed: "Do Souther Crevice Spiders have a fiddle mark on their back, male or female." I am not disputing that you found your picture marked Souther Crevice Spider but this is what I found.

https://www.insectidentification.org/insect-description.php?identification=Southern-House-Spider
"On first glance, homeowners may think a male Southern House Spider is a Brown Recluse thanks to similar colors and body shape, however, Southern House Spiders do not have the violin-shaped mark on their heads. Their venom is not toxic like the Recluse, but they may bite if they feel trapped, and that bite may cause some pain. The Southern House Spider actually does homeowners a good service by eliminating pest insects like flies, roaches, beetles, and wasps. For those not interested in the assistance, consistent cleaning of corners, baseboards, and window frames with a vacuum will help prevent one from taking up residence."

The article went on to say more.. Indicating the Southern House Spider also know as the Crevice Spider was the same (was my take).

Also from the search: "Do Souther Crevice Spiders have a fiddle mark on their back, male or female."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_house_spider

Though we do have both Southern Crevice Spiders in my area as well as the brown recluse, the two are easily distinguishable for me. I have never seen a charcoal colored female Souther Crevice spider that matched your picture above.. :-)
I have seen the distantly different looking charcoal female Souther Crevice Spider pictured in the first article in 'this' post.

We never had any spiders in my area with a fiddle on its back until the timeline of what we have already discussed. I hope this helps..

In Addition:
Note the charcoal spider you posted not only has the clear marking of the fiddle on its back but it also has; Looking from the side view the half moon pictured distinctive 3 sets of double eyes, or six eyes when the picture is blown up which clearly indicates it is a brown recluse.... and from your source, See the drawing of the brown recluse eyes on the left pictured sketch which absolutely matches the description off the picture of the charcoal spider you posted above.
Thanks for your patience.

Phillip


« Last Edit: December 07, 2022, 04:51:03 pm by Ben Framed »
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Jeremiah 5:21 King James Version 
Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2022, 06:13:58 pm »
Oh, I apologize, I have the sexes of the crevice spiders backwards, the brown one is the male, the charcoal the female.  My mistake.  :oops:

I'm fairly sure that the picture I posted does show southern crevice/house spiders though.  There are lots of different eye arrangements in spiders, and the crevice spiders are not part of either Loxosceles or Tegenaria.  This picture shows the eye arrangement of the crevice spider.
https://bugguide.net/node/view/266485

The other major difference between the crevice spider and the recluse is the crevice spider has much longer pedipalps (the leg-like appendages the spider uses to manipulate food to its mouth).  Here is a close up of the recluse for contrast; the pedipalps on the recluse spider are short and curved, and they hold them more off to the side.  The crevice spiders' pedipalps are long and they hold them straighter.   
http://t0.gstatic.com/licensed-image?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9VgVIg68FT0cSC3dmmJkOLcnGW2XoJbf0tQXik8ji8a2_bgOccegMDplsP3WlR0z3S5OQRx2taCP2s2s

Here is another article with pictures of the crevice spiders, some of which would be very easy to confuse with a recluse at a glance.
https://spideridentifications.com/southern-house-spider.html

Again, I'm not saying that it's impossible to identify a brown recluse by eye.  In all likelihood, you would only need a microscope to distinguish the recluse from other members of its genus or members of very similar genera.  I simply want to impress upon people that the famous fiddle is not on its own a foolproof mark of identification.  It's like "leaves of three, let it be" with poison ivy.  It's true, but it needs to be taken as part of the identification process, not the whole.
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2022, 06:27:06 pm »
Your point is well taken Reagan. The picture of the last Crevice Spider in your last link
Quote
https://spideridentifications.com/southern-house-spider.html
is what we often find here in pasteboard boxes from the attic or garage area. Usually several and dead lol. And yes they do look very similar to the brown recluse.. Thank you for your excellent research and making me think! lol  :grin:

Phillip








« Last Edit: December 07, 2022, 08:33:15 pm by Ben Framed »
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Jeremiah 5:21 King James Version 
Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2022, 06:32:50 pm »
Quote from: Ben Framed on December 07, 2022, 06:27:06 pm
Your point is well taken Reagan. The picture of the last Crevice Spider in your last link
Quote
https://spideridentifications.com/southern-house-spider.html
is what we often find here in pasteboard boxes from the attic or garage area. Usually several and dead lol. And yes they do look very similar to the brown recluse.. Thanks you for your excellent research and making me think! lol  :grin:

Phillip
That's what I'm here for!  :grin:
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2022, 06:35:36 pm »
 :grin:  :grin:
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Jeremiah 5:21 King James Version 
Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
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