Author Topic: Varroa checks (Read 19930 times)

CoolBees · « **Reply #20 on:** July 20, 2021, 05:54:24 pm »

Quote from: Beeboy01 on July 19, 2021, 08:50:20 pm

Coolbees, When you were performing your counts did you notice any lighter colored mites dropping during the last few treatments? When I treated a heavily infested hive I saw a lot of light colored mites about the color of coffee with milk in it after about five treatments three days apart. From what I was able to find out about the Varroa life cycle the lighter color was an indication that the mites were younger and fresh out of the brood cells.

Yes - light brown, light red, milky white, and even "clear" colors - most showing up in the later treatment cycles. The early treatment cycles had almost totally "dark" colored mites.

CoolBees · « **Reply #21 on:** July 20, 2021, 06:14:16 pm »

Quote from: rast on July 19, 2021, 12:36:21 pm

Thanks, I had considered 9 days, now will reconsider. Did you state the appx. gram amount used any where?

Somewhere, I got a "scoop" for OA. I think it's 1 gram? ... I use 1/2 scoop per 8-frame brood-nest box - up to 2 full scoops (2 grams?).

Here are some things I found:

Early morning (and late evening) treatments had low drop rates - probably because the bees were still clustered, blocking the flow/spread of OAV.

Mid afternoon treatments needed more treatments - 11 or 12 3-day cycles (i.e. a 3rd brood cycles). This is probably because some/many field bees are carrying mites also, and are nor in the hive at that time.

Mid morning or late afternoon seemed to get the best results/ highest drop rates.

The Application site hole (1/4" hole for Provap applicator) needs to be re-drilled every 2 applications, or so. OA crystals build up around the application hole and block the Vapor from circulating thru the hive properly. This was the #1 cause of low drop counts, mid-application cycle.

Note: I often do a 3-day & then 4-day application cycle - i.e. Sundays and Wednesdays and repeat. This allows me to schedule the rest of my life easier, and seems to work well. I will treat for 4 or 5 weeks o this cycle. Once per year - in my area.

rast · « **Reply #22 on:** July 20, 2021, 09:31:23 pm »

"The Application site hole (1/4" hole for Provap applicator) needs to be re-drilled every 2 applications, or so. OA crystals build up around the application hole and block the Vapor from circulating thru the hive properly. This was the #1 cause of low drop counts, mid-application cycle."
I keep golf tees stuck in mine.

Ben Framed · « **Reply #23 on:** July 20, 2021, 11:16:45 pm »

Quote

The Application site hole (1/4" hole for Provap applicator) needs to be re-drilled every 2 applications, or so. OA crystals build up around the application hole and block the Vapor from circulating thru the hive properly. This was the #1 cause of low drop counts, mid-application cycle.

Quote from: rast on July 20, 2021, 09:31:23 pm

I keep golf tees stuck in mine.

My application hole are slightly larger than golf tees. I was concerned that propolis may be added in these loose areas and possibly blocking the vapor as Alan has experienced with vapor crystals. My go to now is dowels the size of my applicator tube on my OAV vaporizer. I make sure they are long enough to become flush on the inside of the hole yet sticking out a couple of inches on the outside used as a grip in removing for the next application. I accomplished this by using a 'pattern' dowel with a circle marked depth reminder using a sharpie, letting me know the dowel is in deep when the mark or the dowel reached the outside edge of the inlet hole of the hive. Each dowel plug is marked this way.

Beeboy01 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 20, 2021, 11:26:07 pm »

Coolbees, thanks for the reply, I've always wondered if finding immature mites near the end of the treatments was a common occurrence. It might be a good indicator that the treatment was a success.

Back in 2018 I had a heavily infested hive and spent most of the summer treating and counting mite drops. I haven't posted the graph of the data for a while so here it is again.

CoolBees · « **Reply #25 on:** July 21, 2021, 01:33:07 pm »

Just to clarify - the buildup of OA crystals that I'm referring to, occurred about 2-3 inches into the hive around the application hole. I observed this be taking a hive apart and looking at the bottom board. My application hole is drilled thru the back- center of the bottom board, just below the bottom box.

I found I have to run a fairly long drill into the hive to clear the buildup of crystals.

A dowel that "fits flush" on the inside, will not fix or prevent this problem. This is my experience, just FWIW.

Beeboy01 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 21, 2021, 01:46:34 pm »

I treat using a OA wand through the screened bottom board and have seen a deposit of crystals on the tray the next day where the wand head was sitting. I always thought that the vapor was condensing and crystallizing directly over the wand during application. Sounds similar to what you are describing with the Provap.

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 21, 2021, 06:13:15 pm »

Coolbees,
My OAV vaporizer has a 2 inch copper tube that slides of the hive and prevents the hole from being blocked up. Is it possible to modify your unit?
Jim Altmiller

rast · « **Reply #28 on:** July 22, 2021, 09:51:08 am »

Coolbees,
We use the same application hole location, but this is the first that I have heard of a buildup like that. My nozzle is 1 5/8" long with a 3/32+ ID which gives it some velocity. There is also an uptilt to the nozzle due to hole diameter so it is not shooting directly on any thing. Interesting and something to look for when I see a bottom board Saturday.

Ben Framed · « **Reply #29 on:** July 22, 2021, 10:40:29 am »

Quote

My application hole are slightly larger than golf tees. I was concerned that propolis may be added in these loose areas and possibly blocking the vapor as Alan has experienced with vapor crystals. My go to now is dowels the size of my applicator tube on my OAV vaporizer. I make sure they are long enough to become flush on the inside of the hole yet sticking out a couple of inches on the outside used as a grip in removing for the next application. I accomplished this by using a 'pattern' dowel with a circle marked depth reminder using a sharpie, letting me know the dowel is in deep when the mark or the dowel reached the outside edge of the inlet hole of the hive. Each dowel plug is marked this way.

Quote from: CoolBees on July 21, 2021, 01:33:07 pm

Just to clarify - the buildup of OA crystals that I'm referring to, occurred about 2-3 inches into the hive around the application hole. I observed this be taking a hive apart and looking at the bottom board. My application hole is drilled thru the back- center of the bottom board, just below the bottom box.

I found I have to run a fairly long drill into the hive to clear the buildup of crystals.

A dowel that "fits flush" on the inside, will not fix or prevent this problem. This is my experience, just FWIW.

Thanks for the clarification Cool. In that case dowels will not make a difference in the circumstances as you are pointing out. Your information is something I will pay special attention to after my next rounds of treatments. Thanks !

Ben Framed · « **Reply #30 on:** July 26, 2021, 12:44:10 am »

To the credit of CoolBees and Beeboy01 adding rast. I am posting this video of some very heavy hitters in bee research whom I greatly respect and admire, which the information of the video came out just today! You two have posted private studies that actually go beyond what is stipulated by experts here as demonstrated by your charts. Please understand, I am in no wise scrutinizing the great researchers, as we are ALL learning together as we go and they are doing GREAT WORK. As a universal team if you will. Beekeepers and researchers alike in the fight of Varroa Destructor. If they had treated in 3 day intrivitals instead of 5 and 9 treatments instead of 7, Or even the 3 day 7 treatments as rast, I am confident and they would have come up with similar results as you Alan 'Coolbees' and 'Beeboy01'. Maybe the three day is the key? I am thinking Mr Binnie was kind of leading in this direction going by his questioning.

https://youtu.be/WbqdyufEQNM

mark · « **Reply #31 on:** July 28, 2021, 10:01:00 pm »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sy5fNDvxgg

Ben Framed · « **Reply #32 on:** July 28, 2021, 11:07:35 pm »

Mark I had this basic discussion with Cameron Jack, related to his thoughts of 4 g instead of 1 or 2, as discussed here in in the first part of your video. I got in touch with him after several of us here at Beemaster were having a discussion, some time ago, on the topic: "OAV too hot?"

After watching part 2, the video that you posted, studying his chart, I am sustained in my confidence that Coolbees is on target with his 3 day / 9 treatment program.

We shall in time, see about the OAV strips mentioned here as the study progresses? I hope they work!

rast · « **Reply #33 on:** July 30, 2021, 11:03:12 pm »

Regarding discussion starting post #21, I did not see any OA build up on my bottom boards (solid). I'm proud that I remembered to look.

mark · « **Reply #34 on:** August 01, 2021, 11:22:57 am »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN0regj4rPw
anxious to see the results.

Ben Framed · « **Reply #35 on:** August 01, 2021, 09:49:40 pm »

Topic:
"Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?"

Mark you might find this Beemaster topic interesting as well.

mark · « **Reply #36 on:** August 01, 2021, 10:34:47 pm »

i surely do ben. it's all interesting which is why i followed up your post from bob binnie with the next 2 parts.you actually beat me to the punch but i was pleased to see it was already posted. he's one of my favorite videos to watch. i actually did my first alcohol wash this year and didn't find any mites. pleased but conflicted for killing all those bees for nuthin.

Ben Framed · « **Reply #37 on:** October 03, 2021, 12:17:30 pm »

Bobbee started this topic a year ago. How are things concerning varroa in your bee yards since this topic was begun?

Beeboy01 · « **Reply #38 on:** October 22, 2021, 12:07:20 am »

I'm still treating every third or fourth day for eight treatments in my yard using a wand. So far the mite drop has dropped quickly during the last half of the treatments. My last treatment period was late August into September between the Cabbage Palm and Brazilian Pepper flows. My next treatment period will be at the end of December into January trying to catch whatever natural brood break if any occurs here in Florida.

Just got my monthly copy of Bee Culture and in the front question and answer section OAV was blasted as detrimental to the health of the bees with genetic modification of the bee's RNA the upcoming solution. It kind of surprised me considering how long OAV has been used in Europe with no noted problems.

NigelP · « **Reply #39 on:** October 22, 2021, 04:25:34 am »

Yup that is surprising.
Interesting that many of you need to vape 8 or 9 times. Quite labour intensive.
Over here I do 4 vapes at 5 day intervals to try to catch all the emerging mites from the sealed cells. It's usually enough, except for an occasional hive that just keeps dropping mites and mites and mites. In the past have done several more vapes on these rogue hives but now just add Amitraz strips to them to save me the drive and extra work.
I'm using a sublimox and have designed an eke with a clear top and hole for sublimox nozzle. You are then "blowing" sublimated OA into an empty space that rapidly fills the rest of the hive as it descends downwards. It does require the crown boards being removed but is a very efficient way of distributing vaporized OA and very easy to remove the build up of crystals near the hole in the eke.

Many in the UK have been using OA strips this past few years but with mixed results. Some swear by them, some swear at them. When it gets this hit and miss with a treatment I'll stay clear of it.