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Author Topic: Swarm Catching  (Read 5914 times)

Online Terri Yaki

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Swarm Catching
« on: February 24, 2024, 07:04:26 am »
I looked but didn't find anything that looked like what I am looking for so...here I am.

For a first year beek, I have plenty of boxes and frames and want to set up a swarm trap. I have two sections of scaffolding that I can put up out back easily enough so I was thinking of using that. It would put me about 10' up and I expect that to be suitable. I schmutzed up some frames with slum gum and got a couple of frames of comb off of my neighbor. Now for the deets, deep or medium frame and how should I arrange their alluring new home? Should I add some other baits like lemongrass oil and/or maybe some slumgum or will a couple of frames of old comb and the schmutzed up frames suffice? And how many frames should I use for this?

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2024, 08:01:46 am »
I am assuming your equipment is new and does not have the luxury of 'bee smell' as seasoned wood-ware.  There are ways to attract bees. Speaking from personal experience I would recommend placing traps with the insides painted or smeared with slum-gum. A frame or two of drawn comb is good also and will help as well. Any slum-gum is better than none. Bees love the smell!!

I would also recommend finishing filling the box with frames of foundation. For instance if you use a 5 frame nuc, don't use just 4 frames in your swarm box.  Use 5 whether drawn comb or a combination with added frames 'with' foundation.  Bees will make short order of setting up housekeeping when they reach their new home. They will be 'busy as bees' drawing new comb and the queen will soon go straight to laying. This practice will help insure that the bees will not have room for cross combing empty space. 

Location is important as well. For instance If there are know bee hives in the area the chances are better. Close proximity to a beekeeper with several hives would be favorable. Bees do at least two 'major' things among others, reproduce/multiply and produce honey.

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2024, 08:33:50 am »
I agree with Ben except that I would only put one old drawn frame one side or the other and the rest of the frames should bee foundation less. Our at least 2 boxes with only one box with frames in it. Use a q-tip dipped in lemongrass oil and wipe it around the entrance. Take the q-tip and place it in a zip lock bag, seal it and drop in in the bottom of the box. Strap the box with a ratchet strap and put it no more than 6 feet high preferably in shade. Bees mark the entrance with their nazinof Glands and it is almost the exact same thing as lemongrass oil.
The scout bees will measure the inside of your trap by walking around both directions. If it is full of foundation they may not accept it. You can put drawn comb instead. They like it better t you stand the chance of loosing it to wax moths.
I have caught at least 4 huge swarms with this setup, the first ones were just 5 medium supers that I put the frames in the top box, added a top entrance and a lid. All of these swarms were so large that they made lots of honey the first year.
Bee sure to move them into a hive with additional frames, if it really large, no more than 7 days. If you wait longer than that they will have lots of cross comb under the frames.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2024, 08:45:06 am »
Here are two pictures of a swarm that moved into what I just described. I couldn?t get to this hive until the tenth day and this is how much comb they built. Above the exposed comb is a medium box with one old drawn comb and nine empty frames. They filled all of the frames perfectly.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2024, 09:32:41 am »
Nice pictures Jim. Thats why I recommend foundation on all frames which are without comb in the catch box, and in a second box also 'if used'. (Simply to avoid a comb mess.)
They will immediately get busy upon arrival. I used a 5 frame nuc set up catch box just for an example. This seems to be a preference by many. In my opinion a regular 10 frame deep set up gives that needed 'room for acceptance' even with frames of foundation.. Thus eliminating comb and cross problems, while getting your new swarm off to a good start. (Remember, new white comb is hard to reuse or 'cut out' for reuse because of its softness)...

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2024, 09:37:46 am »
Quote
"BeeMaster2''
All of these swarms were so large that they made lots of honey the first year.

Jim I have also noticed new big swarms make honey the first year. I have also noticed colonies which were swarmed from, seem to lag behind..

Phillip






« Last Edit: February 24, 2024, 09:50:25 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Terri Yaki

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2024, 10:44:32 am »
I hope I'm so lucky. I'll get that out in the next day or two so when the swarm swarms, I'll bee ready.

Online Kathyp

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2024, 11:02:53 am »
There was a pinned post some time back about equipment for swarm catching.  If you intend to chase them rather than just attract them, you can put together a kit and be ready to go.

Put your name on swarm catching lists and let your local fire dept and pesticide companies know that you are available.  Also check with any university that is close to you and has an ag extension. 



Someone really ought to tell them that the world of Ayn Rand?s novel was not meant to be aspirational.

Offline gww

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2024, 11:15:54 am »
I catch a couple of swarms in traps each year.  Not great as I have about 15 traps out.  I am lazy and leave them out all year and just throw a little lemon grass oil in them each march along the line as jim said, qtip in baggy.  I use one deep and as jim said, use foundationless frames.  If I have a frame of dark brood comb, I might throw that in also and it probably helps but like I said, I am usually too lazy to do so.  I put some of them at my family's houses and ask them to call me if they see bees messing with the entrance.   I find bees don't care about the traps unless they are looking for a home and so if a bee is seen to be interested and I get  call, odds are pretty good.  I keep a trap in my back yard that I can see regularly and it helps me as when I see a bee messing with it, I know it is a good time to go look at my hives and look at the trees around them incase one of my hives has swarmed.  Most times if a hive does swarm,  they will not go far and will be in a tree close to the hives and you can just shake them into a box.  I have saved several of mine this way.  Good luck.

I also agree with putting the traps low enough to reach them from the ground easily.  It just is not worth doing more and higher is just too much of a hassle.  I make little platforms that I slide the deep on and that way when I catch one I can just take another trap with me and when I pick the bees up, put a new trap back.  This cuts down on trips to and from.

Online Terri Yaki

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2024, 03:27:06 pm »
OK, I got one out, here's what it looks like. I went with a medium on the bottom with empty frames and a deep up top with slumgum schmutzed foundations and four frames of old comb in it from my neighbor. They were treated in the freezer for a few days a while ago. I'll track down some lemongrass oil and add that when I get it. Oh, should I put an entrance reducer or anything on it?


Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2024, 03:39:56 pm »
I hope I'm so lucky. I'll get that out in the next day or two so when the swarm swarms, I'll bee ready.
 
Quote
I'll track down some lemongrass oil and add that when I get it.

Terri just word of caution concerning lemongrass oil. I have 'been told'  a little lemongrass goes a long way and too much can backfire and work as a deterrent.

Good luck Terri. I wish you success!

Phillip
« Last Edit: February 24, 2024, 04:01:21 pm by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2024, 04:19:08 pm »
More good swarm stuff from the archives.

Phillip


https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=51118.msg450937#msg450937
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline gww

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2024, 05:33:31 pm »
Terri
My opinion, get rid of the medium.  Just makes it harder to handle and adds nothing to the trap.  May do nothing good and is possible may make the space not as good to a bee.  I think if you got rid of most of the foundation, the bees would like the space better.  They measure by walking and flying.  Not saying I am an expert, just that I have did some trapping and a lot of reading.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2024, 07:46:49 pm »
Terri,
In my experience, the empty box underneath is great for attracting very large swarms. Just make sure you get into the hive and frames within five days.
I filled 2 medium boxes with eleven old drawn comb frames that I will not use for supers. I shaved off a little from the frame sides to make eleven frames fit in a ten frame box. This is what Michael Bush does in his brood boxes. One bee can heat 6 cells instead of three. Three on one side and three on the frame next to if. Great for fast build up.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline gww

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2024, 08:30:26 pm »
I just remember thomas seeley's study on swarm traps where they set out three sizes and came up with 40 liters being most preferred by the bees and them by passing the 100 liter.  I know one hundred is bigger then a medium and a deep but also know that 40 liters is one deep.   It is just guidelines as I had a swarm move into a dead out with three mediums of drawn comb.  I also know though that I have put out double medium traps and never caught a swarm in them but did catch one in a single medium once and truthfully based on seeley really just added little curtains to the bottom mediums to make them deeps and have the most luck with them big or small swarm. 

The double mediums were no fun to handle when a deep would do and seemed to catch better.  I run all mediums and put medium foundationless frames in the deeps cause that is what I have and try to get the swarms the day they move in so they don't have time to draw comb on the bottom space of the frame when in a deep.  Then they transfer better into my normal hive equipment with out destroying any of the work they have did drawing comb.

  Also, moving the swarms home early as I know I have them same day, I don't worry about blocking the exit or putting something in front of it to orient the bees and they seem to orient well to wherever I put them.  I have no doubt that bees might move into about anything  but why make it harder on my self.  Secondly, the swarm that did move into the only medium I ever caught in was probably one of the biggest swarms I have ever caught and had it full.  In my area, most swarms issued will end up in a medium from the start when I transfer as they are all with in a pound or two of each other.

I also fit 11 frames in my boxes, I make my own frames.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2024, 10:07:04 pm by gww »

Offline gww

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2024, 10:03:42 pm »
I do have one more piece of advice from experience to offer.  I put the frames tight against each other and use some method to keep them from swaying when moving the traps.  I do this several ways depending on what I have to work with.  Some times it is four screws tight up against the edges of the outside frame crunching them together.  Other time is is shooting a brad though the frame lips of the outside frames.  Whatever keeps them from moving when I move the bees.  New comb is very fragile and the frames swaying into each other kills bees when moving.  I put mine in rough places sometime but even on the highway you make corners, use gas or brakes etc.  I have moved bees with out this and ended up with all the new comb on the bottom of the trap when I did not do this.  They usually survived it but why do it. Plus, might kill a queen.  I also move at or real close to dark so that I have a good chance that if a virgin was on a mating flight, she would be home.

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2024, 10:05:22 pm »
I also have lowered my swarm boxes every year. It seemed the hassle of ladders, etc were more an aggravation, trying to balance heavy occupied boxes down from a tree. Now I hang them only as high as I can reach.
I used lemon grass oil in the same manner as Jim does.
I use one leftover frame of comb to immediately give the queen a place to lay, and the rest of the frames are foundationless.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2024, 11:45:33 pm »
I hope I'm so lucky. I'll get that out in the next day or two so when the swarm swarms, I'll bee ready.

You might like this Terri. Jefff is friends with JP and Schawee. (Members here). They sometimes do videos together.

"Swarm trap success: 3 out of 6 traps have bees in them already."
Jeff Horchoff Bees
143K subscribers
https://youtu.be/OZUiHstirFs?si=SypjIV4GbW8ml_be







« Last Edit: February 25, 2024, 07:01:03 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2024, 06:59:21 am »
Quote
New comb is very fragile and the frames swaying into each other kills bees when moving.
Quote
I have moved bees with out this and ended up with all the new comb on the bottom of the trap when I did not do this. 


Good point and just another advantage of placing frames with foundation in our swarm traps IMHO.
Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline gww

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Re: Swarm Catching
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2024, 10:27:13 am »
ben
Quote
Good point and just another advantage of placing frames with foundation in our swarm traps IMHO.
I got no proof beyond others written opinions but still say foundation makes the space seem smaller to a bee and makes it harder for them to measure the space.  Most advice out there is foundationless except for a frame or two of brood comb but I have no doubt bees might move anywhere once.