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Author Topic: Oil trap screened hive bottom?  (Read 5278 times)

Offline AustinB

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Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« on: May 07, 2021, 09:31:11 am »
I've noticed more hive beetles than I'd like to see this year. I'm thinking of trying the oil trap style screened bottom boards. Does anyone who has used, or is currently using them have any feedback on their personal experience?
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Offline Brian MCquilkin

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2021, 10:21:26 am »
I found that oil was too messy so I changed to diatomaceous earth and that worked great.
Despite my efforts the bees are doing great

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2021, 11:13:02 am »
I tried oil traps when I only had only four of five hives and they did the job. Paus and Sawdstmkr pointed me in that direction. My first year I had a severe SHB problem and they saved the day. Several folks since have have mentioned diatomaceous earth as Brian just recommend. I have heard good things about diatomaceous. I have not heard any negativity about diatomaceous that I can recall.




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« Last Edit: May 08, 2021, 12:55:36 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline AustinB

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2021, 04:27:31 pm »
I tried oil traps when I only had only four of five hives and they did the job. Paus and Sawdstmkr pointed me in that direction. My first year I had a severe SHB problem and they saved the day. Several folks since have have mentioned diatomaceous earth as Brian just recommend. I have good things about diatomaceous. I have not heard any negativity about diatomaceous that I can recall.




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I found that oil was too messy so I changed to diatomaceous earth and that worked great.

I have never heard of that, but like the sound of it. I'll have to search and see where to buy and how to use it. Thank you
The just man walketh in his integrity: his children are blessed after him.
Proverbs 20:7

Gracious words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones. Proberbs 16:24

Offline paus

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2021, 05:23:53 pm »
Most of my hives have an aluminum casserole pan with edges rolled for strength, with 1/2 to 3/4 inch of used cooking oil in them.  I have a back door to service the pan of oil, I pour the oil through a $1 plastic strainer I got at the $ store into a 5 gallon bucket and reuse the oil.  The bees seldom know I am there when I service the oil pan.  No mess, no SHB, if I stay on top of servicing the pans.  I have used pollen sub on the oil and/or a spoon full of "slimeout juice" IN A FOIL CUP on the oil as bait, seems to work quicker on an infestation of SHB.  My DSBB have 2 3/4" space for the oil pan with #8 hardware cloth for screens. 

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2021, 05:28:49 pm »
Most of my hives have an aluminum casserole pan with edges rolled for strength, with 1/2 to 3/4 inch of used cooking oil in them.  I have a back door to service the pan of oil, I pour the oil through a $1 plastic strainer I got at the $ store into a 5 gallon bucket and reuse the oil.  The bees seldom know I am there when I service the oil pan.  No mess, no SHB, if I stay on top of servicing the pans.  I have used pollen sub on the oil and/or a spoon full of "slimeout juice" IN A FOIL CUP on the oil as bait, seems to work quicker on an infestation of SHB.  My DSBB have 2 3/4" space for the oil pan with #8 hardware cloth for screens.

Yes this method is a proven winner! I appreciate the extra information also of straining etc. If I ever again, have the trouble I had the first year, I will get to work making more bottoms for the cure.....   :grin:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2021, 05:37:21 pm »
I love the West Beetle Trap.  Between the trap and the fuzzy towel inside, I haven't lost to SHB since I started using the combo.

I add 3/4" x 1-3/4" cleats (runners, or skids) on the sides of the screened bottom board.  I use pressure treated lumber and pre-drill for deck screws.  The West beetle trap sits underneath easily, and I can pull it back anytime to check/scrape the trap without opening the hive. 

It's awesome.  With that 1-3/4" space beneath the screen bottom, guard bees can patrol on the trap's top grid, and kick the fallen beetles into the abyss. 

I too found using oil is stinky.  I use a small amount of water.  I bring a plastic kitchen garbage bag with to scrape out trash at each hive.  I carry a bottle of water to refill a few ounces in each tray.


 

Offline paus

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2021, 08:48:20 pm »
I have tried water and I like it better than any thing I've tried, especially with some Sodium hexa meta phosphate added, the water has very little surface tension so everything sinks.  Calgon is the same product and possibly more available for most Beeks.  I do not use water because it evaporates so fast in Texas, and DE cakes but is probably still effective, just try every thing to figure out what works for you.  The DSBB makes the hive heavier.  One more tip I use.  Roll a stick in the rolled edges of the aluminum pan to keep the loaded pan from folding and spilling oil.  *I have been able to control the messy part of the oil pan ever since I lifted a successful hive trap ful of bees with oil pan while standing on the back of a Golf Cart.  That made funniest Bee Keeper Videos, except for the language. 

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2021, 08:57:39 pm »
I used the oil trays for 3 years. In 30 days the trays are almost solid black from dead beetles. My third year I had 12 hives with oil trays and killed thousands of beetles in every tray every month.
It worked so well that the following year I had very few beetles and stopped using oil.
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Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2021, 11:40:05 pm »
I've used oil trays loaded with soapy water under screened bottom boards with success. Tried oil in the trays but it was too messy and filled up with debris. The smell of the soapy water seemed to piss the bees off a bit and needed to be refilled about every three or so days but it killed a lot of beetles. 

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2021, 12:54:23 am »
I used water topped off with oil, as oil floats. I added enough oil on top to seal the water surface to avoid evaporation and save oil. I also put a good dash of mothers vinegar in the water before adding the oil. This worked well. I came up with this little mixture on my own.  :happy:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Brian MCquilkin

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2021, 12:40:30 pm »
With the oil traps, you need to make sure to seal the tray snug and tight so the returning forages can't get into them and drown. been there done that.
Despite my efforts the bees are doing great

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2021, 02:07:11 pm »
With the oil traps, you need to make sure to seal the tray snug and tight so the returning forages can't get into them and drown. been there done that.
I don't have personal experience here, but I'd think this would apply to diatomaceous earth traps as well.  The DE isn't harmful to adults, but if it gets tracked into the hive by the workers, it could be dangerous to the brood. 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2021, 03:20:17 pm »
Whichever way you may decided to go, oil or diatomaceous earth. I am posting a video showing how to make proper, perfect, sized pans from scratch; start to finish.  The end results are fantastic and well worth the effort involved.  IMO

Adding if you already have access to a metal brake, so much the better.


https://youtu.be/EyFlxb3I6Zg
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Brian MCquilkin

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2021, 08:15:20 pm »
With the oil traps, you need to make sure to seal the tray snug and tight so the returning forages can't get into them and drown. been there done that.
I don't have personal experience here, but I'd think this would apply to diatomaceous earth traps as well.  The DE isn't harmful to adults, but if it gets tracked into the hive by the workers, it could be dangerous to the brood.
Correct for both, make them tight to keep the bees out
Despite my efforts the bees are doing great

Offline AustinB

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2021, 11:12:56 pm »
So much good info. Thanks all
The just man walketh in his integrity: his children are blessed after him.
Proverbs 20:7

Gracious words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones. Proberbs 16:24

Offline cao

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2021, 11:55:51 am »
After my battles with the little buggers, I have found that you don't need a full tray under a full screened bottom.  A small pan slid under a small hole cut in a solid bottom board that is screened over can work  just as well.  This mean less oil less mess and less cost to convert a solid bottom.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2021, 12:15:44 pm »
After my battles with the little buggers, I have found that you don't need a full tray under a full screened bottom.  A small pan slid under a small hole cut in a solid bottom board that is screened over can work  just as well.  This mean less oil less mess and less cost to convert a solid bottom.

That's awesome cao. I know from your writings that you have many hives. Do you have this pan system under every hive or do you have a special strategy? 
If you don't have these under each hive, do you find beetles from other hives are drawn to these trap hives by smell perhaps? In other words if you have these spaced out among your hives, do you find the beetles in the unprotected hives to be in small numbers now? I am asking because, if I remember correctly, Sawdstmakr said he did not have these under every hive after a period of time if I remember correctly.  Again, good job!!
« Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 03:08:40 pm by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline AustinB

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2021, 01:13:07 pm »
After my battles with the little buggers, I have found that you don't need a full tray under a full screened bottom.  A small pan slid under a small hole cut in a solid bottom board that is screened over can work  just as well.  This mean less oil less mess and less cost to convert a solid bottom.

Now that is right up my ally, modifying what I have. Let me ask you this, what is the diameter of the hole you drilled? And I assume the screen is large enough to pass a beetle, but small enough to stop the bees? Thanks for the input, and the pictures. Pictures are quite helpful  :cool:
The just man walketh in his integrity: his children are blessed after him.
Proverbs 20:7

Gracious words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones. Proberbs 16:24

Offline paus

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2021, 06:05:38 pm »
I have tried using one  6" hole drilled with my "cornhole game " hole saw.  This did not SEEM to work as well as full screen but I want to try using the slime from a slimeout in the oil pan bottom board,  the SHB really come to that stink. I believe that not every hive has to have a Screen with oil pan but say every other or maybe one in five or ten will be effective since SHB move from hive to hive.  So far it is not a science but it does work.

Offline cao

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2021, 11:23:45 pm »
I haven't got pans on my long hives yet and there are 4 or 5 others that don't have pans.  But the rest of them do.  I will eventually have every hive have a pan with oil whether they need them or not.  If one hive has beetles then they all get oil in their pans.  I am not willing to chance it anymore.  I already lost a hive this year. 

As far as the hole size, I milled out two rectangular holes in the plywood bottom board.  The pan is what they call 1/8 size baking pan.  It is about 6" x 9" so the hole size that I cut out was as big as I could get.  The aluminum pans were less than $3 a piece.  Couldn't make anything else for that price. 

I think certain hives are better and more vigilant to the beetles.  I see some hives almost ignore them while other hives seem to continually harass them.

By the way the beetles in the pan in my previous post was just after a week after installing the modified bottom board.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2021, 11:31:25 pm »
After my battles with the little buggers, I have found that you don't need a full tray under a full screened bottom.  A small pan slid under a small hole cut in a solid bottom board that is screened over can work  just as well.  This mean less oil less mess and less cost to convert a solid bottom.

That's awesome cao. I know from your writings that you have many hives. Do you have this pan system under every hive or do you have a special strategy? 
If you don't have these under each hive, do you find beetles from other hives are drawn to these trap hives by smell perhaps? In other words if you have these spaced out among your hives, do you find the beetles in the unprotected hives to be in small numbers now? I am asking because, if I remember correctly, Sawdstmakr said he did not have these under every hive after a period of time if I remember correctly.  Again, good job!!

I haven't got pans on my long hives yet and there are 4 or 5 others that don't have pans.  But the rest of them do.  I will eventually have every hive have a pan with oil whether they need them or not.  If one hive has beetles then they all get oil in their pans.  I am not willing to chance it anymore.  I already lost a hive this year. 

As far as the hole size, I milled out two rectangular holes in the plywood bottom board.  The pan is what they call 1/8 size baking pan.  It is about 6" x 9" so the hole size that I cut out was as big as I could get.  The aluminum pans were less than $3 a piece.  Couldn't make anything else for that price. 

I think certain hives are better and more vigilant to the beetles.  I see some hives almost ignore them while other hives seem to continually harass them.

By the way the beetles in the pan in my previous post was just after a week after installing the modified bottom board.


I bet you feel confident knowing that your beetle problems are all but over! That was quite a catch for a week..  Thanks for your answers and input....
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2021, 11:49:37 pm »
Cao the more that I look at your picture and set up, the more I like it. I will add your method to what I already have in storage from the first year of beetle (mania) if I need to go back into combat with these pest. Im sure its coming sooner or later.   
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline cao

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2021, 11:40:17 am »
>I bet you feel confident knowing that your beetle problems are all but over! That was quite a catch for a week..  Thanks for your answers and input...

Not confident at all.  Until I have no beetles in any of the pans, then I will be confident.  Right now it is just day to day not wanting to lose any more hives.  Having such a problem with beetles makes all aspects of beekeeping harder.  Splits become a liability if they don't make it.  Storing drawn frames can attract beetles if they have any pollen in them.  Harvesting honey and extracting it has to be done quick of risk losing it.  Just in general they can suck the fun out of keeping bees.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2021, 01:25:28 pm »
>I bet you feel confident knowing that your beetle problems are all but over! That was quite a catch for a week..  Thanks for your answers and input...

Not confident at all.  Until I have no beetles in any of the pans, then I will be confident.  Right now it is just day to day not wanting to lose any more hives.  Having such a problem with beetles makes all aspects of beekeeping harder.  Splits become a liability if they don't make it.  Storing drawn frames can attract beetles if they have any pollen in them.  Harvesting honey and extracting it has to be done quick of risk losing it. Just in general they can suck the fun out of keeping bees


Yes that is true. You are on track for success.
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2021, 01:41:51 pm »
With the oil traps, you need to make sure to seal the tray snug and tight so the returning forages can't get into them and drown. been there done that.
I don't have personal experience here, but I'd think this would apply to diatomaceous earth traps as well.  The DE isn't harmful to adults, but if it gets tracked into the hive by the workers, it could be dangerous to the brood.

Member I?m sure you already know but for the benefit of those who do not, Paus, in reply 4, mentioned using # 8 Hardware cloth between the pan and the bees. This is how the beatles enter the trap as bees can not fit through. Works great!

Your question is a good one. Realizing your concern, I am speaking of oil. Once they hit the oil they are goners! I have no experience with diatomaceous earth.... (meaning, I do not know if they die on the spot or if they can crawl back into the hive dragging diatomaceous earth into the bee area? 




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« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 09:50:10 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2021, 08:33:51 pm »
Do beetles die immediately after falling into diatomaceous earth? I would not think so. Are they able to travel further or work their way back into the hive?
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2021, 10:30:33 pm »
Do beetles die immediately after falling into diatomaceous earth? I would not think so. Are they able to travel further or work their way back into the hive?
I was doing some looking at this, and I found that my comment earlier about DE being safe for adult bees was inaccurate.  DE is most effective on soft-bodied insects (provided they aren't slimy like earthworms, who are protected from DE by their thick coat of mucous), but it can and will also kill hard-bodied insects, like beetles and bees.  DE's microscopic particles have edges that are extremely rough which can get in between the joints of insects' exoskeletons and cause extreme irritation, and it can also wear away at the exoskeleton's waxy protective cuticle, which leads the insects to die of dehydration.  DE is considered safe for use around bees because it's easy to apply it in ways that the bees won't come in contact with, and I'd imagine that bees' hairy bodies also help to protect them from the dust more than a smooth insect.  But nonetheless, it can affect adult bees as well as larvae. 

So Phillip, I'd say no, beetles wouldn't die immediately from falling into the DE, since they have to die of dehydration.  My question would be: do does the DE incapacitate them quickly enough that they can't or won't crawl back into the hive?  Perhaps the DE all in their joints makes it too painful or difficult to move well?     

I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2021, 10:41:59 pm »
Do beetles die immediately after falling into diatomaceous earth? I would not think so. Are they able to travel further or work their way back into the hive?
I was doing some looking at this, and I found that my comment earlier about DE being safe for adult bees was inaccurate.  DE is most effective on soft-bodied insects (provided they aren't slimy like earthworms, who are protected from DE by their thick coat of mucous), but it can and will also kill hard-bodied insects, like beetles and bees.  DE's microscopic particles have edges that are extremely rough which can get in between the joints of insects' exoskeletons and cause extreme irritation, and it can also wear away at the exoskeleton's waxy protective cuticle, which leads the insects to die of dehydration.  DE is considered safe for use around bees because it's easy to apply it in ways that the bees won't come in contact with, and I'd imagine that bees' hairy bodies also help to protect them from the dust more than a smooth insect.  But nonetheless, it can affect adult bees as well as larvae. 

So Phillip, I'd say no, beetles wouldn't die immediately from falling into the DE, since they have to die of dehydration.  My question would be: do does the DE incapacitate them quickly enough that they can't or won't crawl back into the hive?  Perhaps the DE all in their joints makes it too painful or difficult to move well?   


As always you come up with good stuff Member. Thanks....
 
"Perhaps the DE all in their joints makes it too painful or difficult to move well?"

Maybe so?
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Oil trap screened hive bottom?
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2021, 08:48:26 am »
This is the reason I suffer with mineral oil in my jar traps, which can stink. I, perhaps irrationally, imagine the wind/breezes sending puffs of DE laden air around the hive while servicing the traps.

 

anything