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Author Topic: Hive crash.  (Read 4737 times)

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2019, 11:00:08 am »


Small hive beetle eggs, totals were in the hundreds.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 11:37:37 am by van from Arkansas »
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline saltybluegrass

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2019, 11:08:00 am »
I know it?s no help but better to have loved than....
I?m nursing one out of 4 original hives through my first 5 months and 3 put togethers through winter.
Your help and experience will keep me sane through these times.

I wonder why the colony didn?t prepare more Q cells. Because they relied on her too much and they suspected no problems?
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2019, 11:45:11 am »
Why no queen cells, Salty ask?  Good question.  Maybe no nurse bees, maybe queen shut down suddenly and as the bees realized it was to late.  I have seen this before, queen failure and no queen cells.  Remember the queen is old, 3.7 years.  Yes I have heard of queens living 5-6 years but I believe 6 years is not a typical lifespan.  The queen is not marked however she is Cordovan so no marking needed.

 Van
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Nock

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2019, 11:53:12 am »
Lot of good pics. Thanks for update
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2019, 11:54:41 am »
Live Varroa:

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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline saltybluegrass

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2019, 12:00:53 pm »
Will you do a treatment then consolidate or both?
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2019, 12:06:23 pm »


I magnified the beetle eggs.  A little bit fuzzy, sorry.   I counted 12 eggs laid on the larva head through a tiny hole in the capping the size of a dot in this sentence...  I found multiple beetle nest each with about 12 eggs each placed on larva, just underneath the wax capping.  I removed the eggs from off the larva head and placed on a capped cell for viewing.
Van
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Online The15thMember

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2019, 12:11:35 pm »
Sorry about the hive, Van.  Great pictures though.  At least in these situations there is always the opportunity to learn, for both you and for newbees like me. 
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Offline TheHoneyPump

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Hive crash.
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2019, 02:24:07 pm »
So sad to see this Van.  Always seems to be the good big ones that the VM PMS take down in October.  Repeat treatments in the fall are necessary to stave off infestations coming from neighbours and final brood cycles.
There are mentions above of an older queen failing.  Imho, she is not responsible for this crash.
The following shared experience is likely regional to my climate which is a long cold confined winter. I have seen big hives abruptly go queenless in September/October and survive through the winter to spring when I am able go give them a queen in March.  Obviously the prerequisite is the hive is otherwise healthy, no pests or disease.  Here, A hive gone queenless late fall is not doomed. They can hang on, restart with new queen in spring, and the hive keeps going into the next bee season. Also, In my climate, rarely are attempts made for queen cells late in season. They seem to opt to hunker down and hang on for spring.  Freezing temperatures and snow on the doorstep may have something to do with that.
To set the end posts of what I am saying above.  Here:  Winter means October 20.  Spring means March 18.
So, imho not your beautiful queens fault there Van.  Chalk on another hive on the mite score stick. :(

Hope that helps, in some way.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 02:36:51 pm by TheHoneyPump »
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When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2019, 06:25:47 pm »
HP, I appreciate your input.  I still have the queen in an incubator and I am hand feeding her.  I could start a 5 frame nuc and introduce her.  However, I am at 16 hives and my max is 20.  I have little room for splits next year so I really don?t want another hive at this point.  However this ol gal, the queen has been with me for going on four years.  I have her sister, same age, actually 3.7 years named Alpha, a super queen by laying standards.  Decisions decisions decisions???

When I say sister queens:  the two queens have same mother grafted eggs from, different dads of course.  So I use the term sister, it is rather loosely, not literally.

Van
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline paus

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2019, 07:36:48 pm »
Van, how do you know the queens have different Dads?
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Offline FatherMichael

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2019, 07:37:18 pm »
Heartbreaking.

So sorry, Van.
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2019, 08:25:26 pm »
Paus, good question.  The queen mom most likely breed with at least 10 drones.  The chance of full sister are slim; 10 percent or less.  Like I said, I use the term sister loosely not literally for that reason.  I did not want to go into detail on the genetics as some beeks find genetics boring.  Also there is debate on how many drones a queen actually breeds with and how many mating flights a queen goes on.  So I was trying to keep it simple.

Blessings
Van
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline paus

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2019, 09:38:56 pm »
Good point Van, but for those that may be interested I have been told that the sperm from a drone is "stacked".  Of course there will be  some mixing, which explains two different kinds of bees in the same hive.  This is supposed to explain why some hives become aggressive and then after some time, return to docile ladies.
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2019, 11:16:29 pm »
Paus, regarding stacking; sperm are never still unless it cold or dead.  Spermatozoa are always mobile so I cannot understand how segregation could be accomplished.  The spermatozoa are maintained in a 10 microliter [10/1,000,000] sack called a spermateca.  However when ever I say I cannot understand note there are infinite facts I am not aware of.
Blessings to you Paus
Van
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2019, 02:27:41 am »
Mr. Van: sorry for your loss. I would recommend treating all your hives ASAP as the robbers are  sure to take these parasites back to their home hives.. Thanks for all the pictures and commentary. A real eye opener once again for me as I remember what Member went through last season. Beeboy01 also.   
May you find blessing out of the ashes.
Phillip 
« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 02:41:15 am by Ben Framed »
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2019, 08:08:57 am »
Van, certainly in 4 years you made splits from this queen so her legacy lives on.  You had four good years that is your bright side.
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2019, 10:26:27 am »

[ quoting Van
2 on: September 30, 2019, 08:43:49 pm ?
Quote
Update, although I was quick to open, inspect, reduce entrance to 3/4 inch and close the hive, only taking 2-3 minutes, the weak hive was discovered and is now being robbed.  Now bees are all over the entrance.  Not a good way to end my day.  Already sundown so soon bees will be back to their hives.
Van
quote author=Ben Framed link=topic=52909.msg475263#msg475263 date=1569994061]
Mr. Van: sorry for your loss. I would recommend treating all your hives ASAP as the robbers are  sure to take these parasites back to their home hives.. Thanks for all the pictures and commentary. A real eye opener once again for me as I remember what Member went through last season. Beeboy01 also.   
May you find blessing out of the ashes.
Phillip
[/quote]



Mr Van, let me  reemphasize the importance of treating the rest of your hives for mites immediately.
Phillip

TOP STORIES ENVIRONMENT
Beekeepers battle mites with technology
?According to Papendieck, bees easily transmit the mite to other beekeepers' hives in what apiarists call robbery.
"It happens when certain colonies are being robbed by other bees. Large numbers of bees from different colonies attack weak hives and steal their stocks. At the same time, parasites and diseases are exchanged", he says.
Researchers have been trying to breed varroa-resistant mites, but so far they haven't had much success.?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 10:38:30 am by Ben Framed »
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2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2019, 08:56:10 am »
Quote from: Ben Framed on October 03, 2019, 10:26:27 am

Researchers have been trying to breed varroa-resistant mites,

Huh, what the heck is this?
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Hive crash.
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2019, 09:46:52 am »
Just a typo I suspect.  Should be Varroa resistance bees.
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.
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