Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: Bob Wilson on December 02, 2020, 10:39:32 pm
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How does eveyone keep notes on their hives?
I believe Jim writes comments on note cards and leaves them on top of the inner cover, under the hive top.
And what exactly needs to be in the notes? How many seams of bees, what percentage of brood on each frame, beetle conditions, mite condition, how much honey, look for QCs, general hygeine, how many empty frames, amount of drones, and so forth.
Just how much information do you all record for later evaluation?
Does anyone use an inspection sheet, and how does that work with propolis fingers?
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Okay, disclaimer first. I'm one of those people who can absorb information very quickly and retain it well. I am also someone who thinks and remembers best in words and not statistics. My system is definitely not the most efficient, and it's still a work in progress (like beekeeping generally, I guess), so I'm not necessarily recommending it to you, Bob, because I'm not sure how well it would actually work for someone else. But obviously, everyone has to figure out what style of record-keeping works for them (like beekeeping generally, I guess, :cheesy:), so here's what I do. Hopefully it'll at least give you some ideas.
When I'm actually working the hives I have with me a 1 in. binder full of inspection record sheets. When I originally started beekeeping I bought a small spiral bound set of inspection records made by Little Giant, and when they ran out, I used my home printer to copy 2 of them front and back and made the sheets I use today. Here's a picture of one.
I picked the page with the most propolis on it. For me that's as bad as it gets. And yes, the pages are a little sticky, but it's not as bad as you'd think. Each page has the notes for 2 inspections. On the top there are boxes to record the hive ID (for me that is the name of the queen in the hive), the time of day, the weather, how many boxes/supers are on the hive, how many frames are in the hive, whether there is a honey flow on, whether there is a pollen flow on, whether the hive was queenright, the stages of brood that were seen, how good the brood pattern was, the temperament of the hive, the presence of various pests/diseases, the number of frames of brood, honey, pollen, and blanks, whether the hive is being fed, whether the hive is being treated, and an overall assessment of the colony's strength. All this info I fill in after I am finished inspecting for the day. Then on the bottom of the page is a pictorial representation of the hive, and as I'm paging through the frames, I quickly jot down a shorthand version of what I'm seeing. My sister came up with this actually, since she was the original note-taker. Horizontal stripes=a drawn blank, curls=brood, and zigzag=stores. If the brood is drone I just put a D on the frame, if the stores are pollen I put a P, if I see the queen on the frame I put Q, and if I see queen cells I put QC and the number of cells. The info about the frames I write as I am working, and it's enough for me to jog my memory later. I only work a max of 4 hives in one day, so obviously with a lot of hives this wouldn't be practical.
I also have a standard, spiralbound college ruled notebook which is essentially my beekeeping journal. At the end of every day of inspecting I write down everything that I feel I'd like to remember about the inspections. Here's a small sample entry: "7/11/20 Added supers to Berenice and Hip and removed their entrance reducers since they were fanning pretty good. Berenice got box #4 and Hip, box #5 which will soon be #4 since I put the escape board on and will harvest a super tomorrow. I put 2 frames in the freezer since they were half drones, and left 7 in that box, so it should equate to 8 med. frames. It was a time-consuming and challenging rearrange, but got it done pretty well I think. . . ." That entry goes on for another page and a half, but you get the idea. For me this really helps to cement in my mind all that happened that day.
This year, having at most 7 hives now, I found it hard to find specific information looking back at my sheets and journal, so this year I also added a Word file titled "Bee Log", which I use basically as an index for my other notes. Since it's searchable, I can find key information quickly, and I can also easily tabulate information about each hive to compare it at a glance. Here's the entry from this document from the same day as the previous sample from my journal: "7/11 Added 4th box to Berenice, 5th box and triangle escape board to Hippolyta, and removed both entrance reducers." I also used this document to make end of the year overall hive assessments like this one: "Queen Elizabeth/Mary (M&Ms) -- Peak size: 5 boxes. Treated with trapping comb which probably led to a supersedure. Top honey producer, great temperament, managed mites well on own, good brood pattern, 3 boxes of brood at peak. A+"
So that's what works for me, at least at the moment. Hopefully that gave you some ideas to ponder, and hopefully this answer didn't take you an hour to read. :embarassed: :cheesy:
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Bees have always been a hobby for me. I take no notes and record nothing. I let the bees be bees. The hardest part for me is trying to remember what I did yesterday. It seems to be getting worse. The only thing that I have tried to do is understand what the bees are doing at the time I look at them in the hopes that I don't do some thing detrimental to their existence. I only have one hive now and I thought I would have more by now but I haven't yet figured these florida bees out. I truly am witnessing the difference with location. On a sad note I am finishing my last jar of NY honey and all the mead is gone.
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I keep two permanent text files on a non-Internet computer: one is a "Beekeeping TO DO" file - essentially a daily diary - very useful when queen-rearing or similar, in which I can place date markers in advance.
The other file is an "Apiary Status" file, which I review from time to time, and consult prior to any in-depth inspection of a hive. It contains the Queen Status and behaviour of each colony, the genetic lineage of it's Queen, as well as brief notes about any problems or observations of importance.
I don't much care for creating data for data's sake, and so I keep my notes to an absolute minimum - only that info which I really need to know. These notes are written on scraps of paper as I work, and transferred to the computer each time I take a break.
LJ
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I am a spreadsheet guy. I record the inspection on my phone and transcribe it onto a spreadsheet later.
This lets me quickly review the brood nest development as well as the food storage.
And yes, this is probably overkill but . . . .
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Keep notes on whatever form or format that works for you. The main thing is to not expect that whatever you are using at the hive is the final record; For reasons of sticky hands and tools. Most people transcribe into a book or electronic form later. A websearch pops up many public offerings from weatherproof papered notebooks, smartphone apps, PC spreadsheets.
Content matters more than form. Generally the things you want to make notes on so you can track and trend progress are the following. These are the things that you can look back at when making hive management decisions and for assessing if the hive is doing well or doing poorly, over time.
Date
Total hive size; as boxes or frames
Cluster size, # frames covered in bees
Nest size, # frames of brood all stages in 60% of cells both sides.
Brood health, observations of pattern, caps, and larvae
Bee health, observations of wings, abdomens size, general movement on the combs
Pollen, # frames containing pollen in 40% or more of cells both sides.
Honey, # frames containing mostly honey 80%
Empty nest space, # frames mostly empty in the lower brood nest for the queen to work
Empty nectar space, # frames mostly empty in the honey boxes for the bees to work
Harvest, # frames of honey taken
Mite sample, mite count, once per month
Notable exceptions: examples, swarm cells, robbing, dearth,
Manipulations made
Manipulations planned next
(... add up the smaller partial frames to count as one)
Some folks record more things, some record less things. Also not necessary to record this stuff for every hive in the apiary. Just the ones you are most interested in or most concerned about. Otherwise pick a random number that will be representative of most the colonies as the sample and keep detailed notes on those.
Not sure if that helps or not.
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For anyone who doesn't want to keep notes, but needs some kind of reminder regarding each hive's status - there's always the 'brick language'.
A standard house brick is around 8" x 3.5" x 2", and so at it's simplest a brick could be placed on a hive roof in 3 ways: on end; on edge; or flat. This could then provide an immediate visual indicator designating 'urgent action required'; 'action required asap'; or 'hive ok'.
Of course this information could very easily be extended - with six sides to the brick, and using the brick's position on the hive roof etc - and so could be as simple or as complex as you wish.
LJ
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I am the worst person in the world at spotting the queen, and it annoys me (yes i know i dont *have* to see her) - so i got a GoPro and a small tripod stand.
Sit that on top of the second hive, inspect the first, swap it over to inspect the second hive.
As i inspect each frame i hold it still in front of the GoPro for a couple seconds (long enough to ensure focus and at least one clear shot)
Then i dump that onto my computer and add any notes i cant remember - and look for the queen!
I use a free app on my phone called ApiManager. if you do it on the same day it can download and add the weather for you, can run different sites, multiple hives etc etc, pretty handy free app.
And no - i am not going to upload the videos of me getting stung! :cheesy:
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This is a half sheet (5.5X8.5) ring binder notebook with a mock up of the system I plan to use.
Keep in mind I have horizontal hives... hence the 32 deep frames. This represents the entire hive.
I think I can record all the important info here, such as percentage of frames full of bees, spring build up info, eggs, larva, pest, etc.
It will record where I insert, remove, or shift any frames.
This past season, I wrote whatever information I could remember in a blank notebook. I never remembered what important info to look for and record, and the notes where happhazzard and incompete. I was always forgetting how many and of what kind of each frame I had.
15Memeber. I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, unlike the blessing of your excellent memory, but I make up for it by steadily plodding along. It's how I improve.
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This is a half sheet (5.5X8.5) ring binder notebook with a mock up of the system I plan to use.
Keep in mind I have horizontal hives... hence the 32 deep frames. This represents the entire hive.
I think I can record all the important info here, such as percentage of frames full of bees, spring build up info, eggs, larva, pest, etc.
It will record where I insert, remove, or shift any frames.
This past season, I wrote whatever information I could remember in a blank notebook. I never remembered what important info to look for and record, and the notes where happhazzard and incompete. I was always forgetting how many and of what kind of each frame I had.
15Memeber. I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, unlike the blessing of your excellent memory, but I make up for it by steadily plodding along. It's how I improve.
It's like any trait which one possesses a large dose of, sometimes it's a blessing and sometimes it's a curse. Slow and steady wins the race they say, and I would probably improve with a dose of slow and steady to help balance me out. I think that mockup sheet looks great. Everything you need at a glance, and should be easy to fill out as you work.
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How does eveyone keep notes on their hives?
I use painters tape on the back of the hive and a sharpie pen. I just write the essentials. When I need to add a box, harvest honey or check for queen cells. If they are queenright or when queen cells hatch? I would love to have detailed notes but I realized after reaching 15-20 hives, it would take too much of my time to transcribe all though notes. Now near 80 hives, way too much paperwork for a hobby.
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I'm impressed by everyone's record-keeping. Makes me realize I don't keep enough. Mine are sharpie notes on the top of the box with dates and initials/codes. Sometimes a personal note.
We had a shrimp boil for our youngest son's graduation from college in August. His friends were fascinated with the bees. I had a bunch of queen cells and was down to the last 1-2 (had captured the rest). The kids were passing around a frame and found the last queen, so I wrote "kids" and the date the next morning. Then I knew that the other queens in the subsequent nucs were 1-2 days older, and I remembered getting to talk about bees and seeing the wide-eyed fascination of folks who thought they were as great as I did. Whatever works for you. :happy:
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I'm not that good at keeping written notes, five minutes after writing them I can't read my own handwriting.
I use an online beekeeping software (API Manager) updated in realtime via an app that I use at the yards.
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Interesting comments all.
15Member. I will use this half sized notebook I devised. You encourage me in doing it, but I can't help wondering how it will fare with sticky propolis, in spite of what you said. At least I work bare handed whenever I can. That will help holding the pencil. At any rate, it must be done. I have tried a year of writing notes after inspection, and with just 3 hives, I forget too much and get the hives mixed up.
Cao and Jojo. I don't see how you can keep the kind of information HoneyPump suggests, the kind of records that help change your beekeeping choices 11 months later, writing on a piece of tape or the boxtop. You must be better at understanding the reason WHY each particular problem happens, and retain that knowledge longer. No doubt it becomes more clear with more experience.
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[...] I don't see how you can keep the kind of information HoneyPump suggests, the kind of records that help change your beekeeping choices 11 months later, writing on a piece of tape or the boxtop.
I think much depends on the number of hives involved. Michael Palmer, who's hive-count runs into thousands, uses tape stuck to each hive, onto which he writes his notes. Those notes are in the form of a cryptic code, and is a system which works well for him. (he's made a video in which he explains how the system works)
Despite having so many hives, with this system he can immediately review the history of each one very quickly - and, 'in the here and now'. With such an enormous work-load he assesses each hive as it comes, moving progressively from one hive to another.
I'd suggest that for him, a more elaborate system would be counter-productive.
LJ
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15Member. I will use this half sized notebook I devised. You encourage me in doing it, but I can't help wondering how it will fare with sticky propolis, in spite of what you said. At least I work bare handed whenever I can. That will help holding the pencil. At any rate, it must be done.
I find that the pencil really takes the brunt of the stickiness. I have my hives all in a row, so I set my binder on the hive next to the one I'm working, which means I don't really touch the paper a lot with my hands. The pencil is however another story, and after each day of inspecting I usually have to scrape the propolis off the pencil. If you have to hold the notebook in your other hand while you write, it's going to be sticky, I'd imagine. If you have some place to set it while you work, then I don't think it'll be too much of an issue.
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Cao and Jojo. I don't see how you can keep the kind of information HoneyPump suggests, the kind of records that help change your beekeeping choices 11 months later, writing on a piece of tape or the boxtop. You must be better at understanding the reason WHY each particular problem happens, and retain that knowledge longer. No doubt it becomes more clear with more experience.
I don't claim to be able to keep as detailed notes as honeypump suggests. As I am still doing this as a hobby, I don't feel the necessity to document everything. I don't want to spend the time with 70-80 hives. You would be surprised how much information on can put on a piece of tape attached to the back of a hive body.
Also as the hive grows you have more boxes to put tape on. So you only need to say what is going on in that box. The main disadvantage is that I need to be at the hive to review the info, but that is what I do just before I do an inspection. I don't claim to be any better at understanding WHY any problem happens, I just look at the hive and try to anticipate what it will need until I inspect it again.
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I only have two hives and don't open them, or I will try not to, so use a simpler system just to remind me of what happened for future reference. My first year so just wanted a record and writing it down makes me think about it, also helps when I try to remember how long ago things happened. As I get more used to the hives this will probably reduce to just noteworthy incidents.
I have 4 documents on the PC updated every few days or when someting in noteworthy they are.
Dear Diary- Just my thoughts on progress and what I find, like thought this would happen but was surprised to find....
Regular observations- What I see around the hives, bearding, pollen collection time of day of activity etc.
Temperature and weather- Just note any hot, cold, rainy spells and their effects.
Sticky board findings- I do these just for my own info as they have various detritis on them.
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but I can't help wondering how it will fare with sticky propolis, in spite of what you said.
If I were going to take notes I would have prewritten messages in a list and use a rubber stamp, felt tip or high lighter to indicate what is happening to each hive. It is hard to write anything when you get all sticky. Lets face it an 8 sided brick covers most of the conditions of a hive.
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As we paint the top of our lids white, this becomes the note pad. We use a paint pen as alcohol based pens (texta pens) don't last the season.
Just a date and comment. Bottom right corner is for requeen or fizzy comments, both with a date. 2 fizzy comments and the queen is most likely to be replaced.
Top left is where the number of supers of honey we take off the hive, at the end of the season this transfers to the side of the brood box.
In winter the lid is repainted as we consider next year as a new season, we may retain some comment that is put on bottom left of lid, good hive, nice queen, RQ (requeen) next year.
We use codes to save writing
DNFQ-did not find queen
B+E- brood and eggs
S1/2- super half full
At my age notes are essential as we used to put a stick or rock on the lid, only to come back in 2 weeks and stand looking at the hive wondering what the stick was for.
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Beavo, LOL. I can picture you there, scratching your head.
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I brand this on all my boxes and use push pins to track what I did last time I was here:
When doing an inspection I use the day of the month for today, for the numbers, and whatever I think is relevant otherwise. The abbreviations are: Egg=Eggs, Opn=Open brood, Cpd=Capped brood, Fsg=Festooning bees, Mkd=Marked queen, Gnt=Gentle bees, Def=Defensive bees, XQ=Queenless, VQ=Virgin queen, LQ=Laying queen, Gft=Grafted cell, Swm=Swarm cell, Spr=Supersedure cell, Emg=Emergency cell, Dx=Disease, ^=on the increase v=On the decrease, Flp=Followup (i.e. they need something, food, bees, more supers etc.)
When doing queen rearing the date can be used however you think will help. For instance you could use it for the day you expect this queen to be laying or you could have it be the day you put the cell in (which is easier to keep track of) and then the day you saw it emerged and then the day you saw the virgin queen etc.
Sometimes I use multiple colors. i.e. if I SAW the virgin queen I use a purple pin. But if I have evidence to suspect a virgin queen I use blue. If I introduced a virgin queen rather than letting her emerge, I use red. If I saw evidence of a laying queen but didn't see the queen, again, I use blue. If I saw her I use purple. I like to use Red for Flp because I need to do something or that wouldn't be marked and red gets my attention better. Also I like red for XQ because if they are queenless something needs to happen. So it's best if I DON'T use Purple or Red elsewhere so I can easily see which mating nucs or hives need a queen or a queen cell and which ones need some kind of followup.
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Very neat and concise Michael. For queen breeding in a cycle would be effective. Where do the pins that are not being used kept?
The lid writing system does provide a history of what the hive has done for the year. You are sometimes in Autumn looking at a hive that may be struggling with bee numbers and you look over the lid comments and often find that there have been other attempts to keep this hive functioning.
Other hives you look at the lid and there is multiples of date - OK or date - VG and are ready for winter.
I know it is off-topic but I think that our attempts at fixing are just not big enough, eg added 2 frames of brood but may be we should have put in 4 frames of brood and bees.
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I brand this on all my boxes and use push pins to track what I did last time I was here:
When doing an inspection I use the day of the month for today, for the numbers, and whatever I think is relevant otherwise. The abbreviations are: Egg=Eggs, Opn=Open brood, Cpd=Capped brood, Fsg=Festooning bees, Mkd=Marked queen, Gnt=Gentle bees, Def=Defensive bees, XQ=Queenless, VQ=Virgin queen, LQ=Laying queen, Gft=Grafted cell, Swm=Swarm cell, Spr=Supersedure cell, Emg=Emergency cell, Dx=Disease, ^=on the increase v=On the decrease, Flp=Followup (i.e. they need something, food, bees, more supers etc.)
When doing queen rearing the date can be used however you think will help. For instance you could use it for the day you expect this queen to be laying or you could have it be the day you put the cell in (which is easier to keep track of) and then the day you saw it emerged and then the day you saw the virgin queen etc.
Sometimes I use multiple colors. i.e. if I SAW the virgin queen I use a purple pin. But if I have evidence to suspect a virgin queen I use blue. If I introduced a virgin queen rather than letting her emerge, I use red. If I saw evidence of a laying queen but didn't see the queen, again, I use blue. If I saw her I use purple. I like to use Red for Flp because I need to do something or that wouldn't be marked and red gets my attention better. Also I like red for XQ because if they are queenless something needs to happen. So it's best if I DON'T use Purple or Red elsewhere so I can easily see which mating nucs or hives need a queen or a queen cell and which ones need some kind of followup.
Wow, Michael, that is really unique! How much did it cost to get a brand like that made?
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i think Michael should brand the cows... I mean the bees, themselves. That way he can tell when some other stock has wandered onto his land.
On a serious note: I am impressed by how purposeful so many of you are in improving your beekeeping. I spurs me to work harder at being observant and proactive in my beekeeping.
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>How much did it cost to get a brand like that made?
$830 But I put it on a couple of thousand boxes...
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>How much did it cost to get a brand like that made?
$830
Ouch. IDK seems excessive.
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Less than a dollar a calendar...
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That's only about a dollar as of now. 10 years of future stamping will drop it ever more cheap.
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Less than a dollar a calendar...
Ok so if everything you buy is less then a dollar you are happy? You could advertise for the Dollar Store.
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:) I used to have plastic calendars and they probably cost me about the same, but they also tended to end up scattered all over. These stay attached to the box.
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A stenciled and a paint brush / roller might be under 50 bucks divided by 2000 boxes = 2.5 cents per
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Yeah... but the flaming branding iron is so much more fun to use. It's why some people drive a tiny car, and some people drive BMWs.
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the branding on the box is a great idea, great system. :)
:cool:
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The brand also has "bushfarms.com" on it so I can identify my boxes. Brands are hard to paint over and hide.
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My system is the same as OldBeavo. I use a paint pen. I haven't tried to remove the older notes. I simply put an X thorough them when outdated. I can always go back and read if desire. The way I have it figured the tops need to be repainted every so often anyway. 2-3_4 years? White paint. for the tops. Works good for me.
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When I was using paint, I would use the color for the queens of that year so I could tell this year from last year at a glance and know what to paint over if I was going to paint...
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Thanks Bob, per your PM request. It's nothing special really, I just make a quick note on the top of lid. inspection Date, Month, Year; Evidence of queen, Whether eggs, brood, or actual queen spotted. If Queen is spotted and brood patterns are adequate, I write her marked color on the note also. If no problems I write nothing else. Draw a line beneath allowing entry space for the next future inspection. If there seems to be a problem. SHB, Mite, Disease, or poor brood pattern etc. that is added on the note. Then addressed after inspection of all other hives on yard. And usually that is it. If a problem does arise and addressed I have the note right there on top as reference of date inspected. problem, and what was done for the problem for future reference, knowing what to look for on the next inspection. I have rarely had these mentioned problems except for the occasional SHB. Or lack of queen etc.
__________________________________________________________
Day Month Year
Queen Status. (Eggs_____,Brood stages_____. Queen color if spotted ____)
Problems if any.
Attempts at problem correcting.
Added notes if needed.
__________________________________________________________
That's about it Bob, adding I use a Red Paint Pen . Hope that helps.
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When I was using paint, I would use the color for the queens of that year so I could tell this year from last year at a glance and know what to paint over if I was going to paint...
Thanks Mr Bush, I like your branded method. 👍🏻. Your system cover a lot of ground!
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I would never write on the cover because it is under the boxes when I open a hive. I have heard too many stories of lost queens on the ground if you put nothing under the box when you take them off.
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I would never write on the cover because it is under the boxes when I open a hive. I have heard too many stories of lost queens on the ground if you put nothing under the box when you take them off.
I do not see an advantage of keeping notes on an inner cover either ace, if that is what you are referring too? Some may? Personally I use a one piece, flat, cut to fit top. No inner cover. When the hive is reassembled the new updated notes are made below the last one. Simple and effective. Almost too simple. lol
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Phil not the inner cover the top cover. It is turned upside down on the ground. As you take off boxes you stack them on the cover. This keeps the queen from getting lost on the ground. The inner cover is usually laid along side the bottom box (opposite the top cover) so the bees on it can go back in the hive.
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Phil not the inner cover the top cover. It is turned upside down on the ground. As you take off boxes you stack them on the cover. This keeps the queen from getting lost on the ground. The inner cover is usually laid along side the bottom box (opposite the top cover) so the bees on it can go back in the hive.
This is my method also Brian. I use the top in the same manner. It also keeps grass an derbies off the edge of the boxes.
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Judy and I write notes on an envelope and keep the envelopes on top of the insulation in the screen top boards.
Jim Altmiller
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Phil not the inner cover the top cover. It is turned upside down on the ground. As you take off boxes you stack them on the cover. This keeps the queen from getting lost on the ground. The inner cover is usually laid along side the bottom box (opposite the top cover) so the bees on it can go back in the hive.
This is my method also Brian. I use the top in the same manner. It also keeps grass an derbies off the edge of the boxes.
Phil if your hive is one or two boxes writing notes on the lid might work. But if it is 7 boxes I can't remember what's going on in which box by the time I retrieve the lid. If you are not selling bees or raising queens I really don't see the need for notes for a guy like me that doesn't open a hive just to see what is in it.
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Judy and I write notes on an envelope and keep the envelopes on top of the insulation in the screen top boards.
Jim Altmiller
Be honest Jim Judy is writing the notes. :smile:
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Phil not the inner cover the top cover. It is turned upside down on the ground. As you take off boxes you stack them on the cover. This keeps the queen from getting lost on the ground. The inner cover is usually laid along side the bottom box (opposite the top cover) so the bees on it can go back in the hive.
This is my method also Brian. I use the top in the same manner. It also keeps grass an derbies off the edge of the boxes.
Phil if your hive is one or two boxes writing notes on the lid might work. But if it is 7 boxes I can't remember what's going on in which box by the time I retrieve the lid. If you are not selling bees or raising queens I really don't see the need for notes for a guy like me that doesn't open a hive just to see what is in it.
There has been some good stuff posted here on note taking. A very good topic that Bob has originated. I?m not suggesting you should or should not take notes. I simply answered the question explaining how I do it in post 37 .🐝
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Judy and I write notes on an envelope and keep the envelopes on top of the insulation in the screen top boards.
Jim Altmiller
Be honest Jim Judy is writing the notes. :smile:
Okay, I admit it.
Jim Altmiller
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Brick, Duct tape & sharpie for abbreviated notes on hive for general stuff, then more specific sticky dirty notes transcribed to my iPad. I tried using my phone/iPad there but too messy. Then I need to remember what my abbreviations mean.