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Author Topic: Can you see the signs of the times?  (Read 3191 times)

Offline Occam

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Can you see the signs of the times?
« on: March 24, 2023, 08:00:02 pm »
Here in the northern henisphere the weather is changing, signs of spring are all around. Birds are singing, flowers starting to bloom, dandelions popping up, and leaves appearing on the first early trees. My hives have come through winter and I can once again enjoy sitting on my bench and watch the bees busily hauling pollen into the hive. I've counted at least four different pollen colors coming in and the pollen baskets are bulging, it's a beautiful thing.

Watching the activity and seeing signs of spring around got me to thinking. This is my first spring with bees coming out of winter. What to expect I wonder? Two more months and my first year of this amazing journey with bees will end and the next will begin. My sense of wonderment about bees has only gotten stronger the more I've learned, and the more I've learned the more I realize I don't know.

Which is beautiful isn't it? The not knowing, the expanding understanding that no matter how much I learn there will always be more, the journey will never be complete. It's an unending cycle of observing and learning, partnering with these amazing creatures who not only make life possible but more enjoyable. They don't need us but we need them. Without us they would go on, enduring, continuing through the years, living and dying much as they have for millenia. Without them the world would be irrevocably altered. We have richer lives in more ways than we can ever understand because of them. We're the privileged ones because of them. Our lives are enriched in learning about life from them.

Which leads me back to the beginning of seeing the season change, the hives become active and wondering what I'll learn this year that I didn't know last year. I look forward to hearing what the bees tell me this year, about life, about themselves, and about myself. I hope you also enjoy the learning and smile at your bees for the lessons they teach us.
Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2023, 10:20:07 pm »
Glad you are enjoying your bees as well as the pleasure of learning and all that follows.
:grin:


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2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2023, 01:18:51 am »
Occam,
This is why I warn new beekeepers that beekeeping is very addictive.
Enjoy.
Jim Altmiller
Ps. I have been wondering where you got Occam from. Is it from Occam?s Razor or is it your own name?
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Occam

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2023, 01:32:15 am »
Occam,
This is why I warn new beekeepers that beekeeping is very addictive.
Enjoy.
Jim Altmiller
Ps. I have been wondering where you got Occam from. Is it from Occam?s Razor or is it your own name?
Jim Altmiller

Yes, it's from Occam's Razor. Real name is Aaron
Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2023, 01:37:38 am »
😊
For some reason I kept thinking about Occam?s Razor and then you joined with that name. That is why I had to ask.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2023, 04:19:39 pm »
Warm enough for the bees to fly yesterday and today... I see a lot of pollen coming in.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Offline Occam

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2023, 06:17:32 pm »
Speaking of observing things.. what are the signs you look for that indicate the main flow is starting dor coming. Certain plants to be flowering? Cut down splits are time sensitive to be done a couple week before the main flow to my understanding but I don't know what to look for to tike that. What else do yall look for indicating the flow is about to take off?
Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2023, 07:35:44 pm »
During a hive inspection, if your have drops of liquid on them every time you turn a frame flat, and you aren?t feeding, a flow is on.
One old timer beekeeper I knew years ago used to say to catch a returning bee and squeeze its abdomen. If the flow is on a drop of nectar would come out of her mouth. Never tried it but he said it many times.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Occam

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2023, 10:05:31 pm »
Sure, that one's pretty common sense, they're bringing nectar in and it can be seen in the comb. I guess I was wondering if there are ways of determining timing on a flow based on observations outside of the hive. Also is there a difference between a flow and a main flow? I see both terms frequently used and it would make sense to me that just like many things in nature the flow would be stronger at certain times ofbthe season than at others. But are there outside indications nature gives us (certain trees or flowers blooming) that while nectar may start flowing with the first flowers blooming in the spring it really kicks in stronger later?
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2023, 11:02:28 pm »
Sure, that one's pretty common sense, they're bringing nectar in and it can be seen in the comb. I guess I was wondering if there are ways of determining timing on a flow based on observations outside of the hive. Also is there a difference between a flow and a main flow? I see both terms frequently used and it would make sense to me that just like many things in nature the flow would be stronger at certain times ofbthe season than at others. But are there outside indications nature gives us (certain trees or flowers blooming) that while nectar may start flowing with the first flowers blooming in the spring it really kicks in stronger later?
The way I use the terms at least, my main flows are the dependable times of year when the flow is strong enough for the bees to draw comb at a decent pace.  Just "a flow" is the opposite of a dearth: there is some nectar coming in.  Right now, I'm in a flow, not a main flow, with the second round of spring flowers blooming.  Each hive has one or two frames of honey they are working on curing and maybe one frame they have capped.  Comb building is either very slow or nonexistent, depending on the rate each colony is building up.  But the bees are content and easy to work, since they have food coming in and are busy.   

My two main flows are blackberries in May and sourwood in July.  Provided these flowers produce nectar like they can in good years, and the sourwood especially can be quite variable, these are the times of year where the bees are cranking in and out of the entrances, crashing like B-52 bombers onto the landing board with their heavily laden honey crops, and drawing out and filling 4-6 frames a week. 

The way I generally predict such flows is mostly by learning the typical timing year to year.  After 5 years of beekeeping, I have learned the general seasonal rhythms of my blooms and what to expect in each month.  As far as the quality of the flow in a given year, compared to what I expect based on previous years, I gauge that based on how quickly the bees are building and filling comb.  If I was trying to narrowly predict a flow, for the purposes of timing manipulations, I would use both my own records of previous years, and I would observe this year both the weather and the blooms I was targeting to try and estimate when they are likely to open.         
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Occam

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2023, 12:49:56 am »
Awesome thanks. I've started keeping notes on what's going on, having the data for the future can't hurt I figure. Gradually with more time, experience, and observation I'll start being able to read and understand what's happening more and more
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2023, 04:57:07 pm »
I shouldn't have commented in this thread but thanks for the answers.  I will answer in my own thread.
I will comment on flow though.  A main flow is when you can take some honey in other words there is extra.  A "flow" is something that is just sustainable.  A dearth is not sustainable.  The bees must rely on stored reserves.
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2023, 05:04:35 pm »
I shouldn't have commented in this thread but thanks for the answers.  I will answer in my own thread.
I will comment on flow though.  A main flow is when you can take some honey in other words there is extra.  A "flow" is something that is just sustainable.  A dearth is not sustainable.  The bees must rely on stored reserves.
I'll move the relevant posts over to your thread, Ace.
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline yes2matt

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2023, 05:12:41 pm »
Speaking of observing things.. what are the signs you look for that indicate the main flow is starting dor coming. Certain plants to be flowering? Cut down splits are time sensitive to be done a couple week before the main flow to my understanding but I don't know what to look for to tike that. What else do yall look for indicating the flow is about to take off?
Without opening the hive at all, bees exiting the hive with obvious direction and intensity, returning with distended abdomen. When they're really coming in heavy you'll see bees that didn't quite make it on the grass in front of the hive, pumping abdomen to get their strength back for the last few feet.

Just opening the hive, white wax on the tops of the combs.

Then wet nectar like Jim said, drippy combs.

Then, and you'll have to get a feel for it, when bees are intentionally backfilling the broodnest with nectar so as to compress the queen to get ready for swarming.

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Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2023, 05:34:03 pm »
Starting to see some warm spots in the sun here.  But it will still be awhile yet before can start playing with the bees.
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2023, 05:55:34 pm »
THP,
😊
This should bee in the Humor section. 😆
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2023, 06:13:04 pm »
Hahahaha!  :cheesy:  You poor arctic dwellers!
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2023, 06:32:23 pm »
HoneyPump. Confession time.
Is that you in the photo, or a meme copied from the web?

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2023, 07:23:27 pm »
Good one HoneyPump...   :grin:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2023, 06:25:52 am »
Snow night before last.  Frost last night.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2023, 12:52:04 pm »
Snow night before last.  Frost last night.

Goodness!
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2023, 01:55:00 pm »
It's far from spring yet in Nebraska.  I don't remember how many times I've seen snow on May Day.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2023, 12:15:17 pm »
HoneyPump. Confession time.
Is that you in the photo, or a meme copied from the web?

That one is off the web, but is EXACTLY what is going on here. The March sun radiant power is warm, but the air is still cold and well below freezing.
It does not look like we will be seeing flying weather above freeze temperatures until after Easter weekend.
Right now, busy clearing off snow for lay down areas.
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2023, 08:29:22 am »
90"s is southern FL.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2023, 06:35:52 am »
38 F this morning.  70's yesterday.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2023, 09:57:42 am »
It always astounds me how you Canadian beeks can pull so much honey from so short a nectar window.
But then I suppose you don't have 2 or 3 months of scorching dearth, when they eat through their honey stores, which we hope to recoup in the fickle fall flow.
I suppose there are difficulties everywhere.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2023, 08:19:10 am »
Bob there really is something to acclimation.  Bees are far more motivated to prepare for winter up north.  I think plants are too.  Just with the few hives I have had down here the bees seems to be more la-da-dy on the foraging side.  Now that could be the fault of the plants but I suspect having perfect flying days everyday has something to do with it.
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Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2023, 07:08:35 pm »
Acebird, my bees slowed down for two weeks after a March cold snap. Just beginning to get fervid again.

I think this is an interesting crowd-sourced data study on how soon spring arrives in each area:

https://www.usanpn.org/nn/springcasting

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2023, 06:51:20 am »
It must have been crowding 80 F yesterday and it's 36 F this morning.  Supposed to get down to about 29 F before the day is over and then back up around 40 F.  The bees were sure happy yesterday...
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Offline 2Sox

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2023, 04:47:56 pm »
Beautifully expressed. I respect your emotion a great deal, Aaron.  Yes, we?re always learning.

Here?s something for all of us:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/apr/02/bees-intelligence-minds-pollination
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2023, 06:25:58 pm »
Here?s something for all of us:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/apr/02/bees-intelligence-minds-pollination
Interesting article.  I'm sorry, but I can't begin to understand why this is so revolutionary.  I would think it would be obvious that an animal that can learn is an animal that can feel, otherwise how else would it learn?  And anyone who has been around bees and actually worked with them knows they don't only react instinctively, right?  If I am working a hive and I squeeze a bee between two frames, she buzzes and struggles to be let out and then continues to be irritated for a few minutes, in spite of the fact that I haven't hurt her.  It was obviously a negative experience for her, and an insect who can remember the way home after flying 3 miles away could easily remember other things. 

There is a carpenter bee male who has set up his territory in front of our garage this year.  The other day, since messing with male bees is fun because there are no consequences  :grin: , I snuck up on him and snagged him out of the air.  I didn't hurt him, just held him in my hand for a few seconds, during which time he struggled and buzzed, and then I released him.  He is now wary of me when I approach, and if I hold up my hand like I'm going to grab him again, he flies away.  How else would he have learned if he didn't remember the negative experience of being caught, and especially that he DID remember it as negative, in spite of the fact that nothing bad actually happened?  He obviously acted afraid, he experienced the threat that I might be a predator, and he is now responding to avoid feeling and experiencing that negative situation again.  We would call that "feeling afraid".  It wasn't instinctive, since he didn't try to avoid me the first time.  I don't need any fancy scientific equipment to observe this.  How else could this type of behavior be explained?  I don't understand what the alternative to sentiency could be in an organism that is obviously so complex. 

It reminds me of Robert Frost's "A Considerable Speck".     
Quote
A Considerable Speck
(Microscopic)
 
A speck that would have been beneath my sight
On any but a paper sheet so white
Set off across what I had written there.
And I had idly poised my pen in air
To stop it with a period of ink
When something strange about it made me think,
This was no dust speck by my breathing blown,
But unmistakably a living mite
With inclinations it could call its own.
It paused as with suspicion of my pen,
And then came racing wildly on again
To where my manuscript was not yet dry;
Then paused again and either drank or smelt?
With loathing, for again it turned to fly.
Plainly with an intelligence I dealt.
It seemed too tiny to have room for feet,
Yet must have had a set of them complete
To express how much it didn?t want to die.
It ran with terror and with cunning crept.
It faltered: I could see it hesitate;
Then in the middle of the open sheet
Cower down in desperation to accept
Whatever I accorded it of fate.
I have none of the tenderer-than-thou
Collectivistic regimenting love
With which the modern world is being swept.
But this poor microscopic item now!
Since it was nothing I knew evil of
I let it lie there till I hope it slept.
 
I have a mind myself and recognize
Mind when I meet with it in any guise
No one can know how glad I am to find
On any sheet the least display of mind.
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline 2Sox

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2023, 11:05:57 pm »
Here?s something for all of us:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/apr/02/bees-intelligence-minds-pollination
Interesting article.  I'm sorry, but I can't begin to understand why this is so revolutionary.  .
[/quote]

The author of the book- Steve Buchanan - thinks it?s pretty revolutionary:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1642831247?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

By the way, thank you for posting that beautiful Frost poem.
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2023, 12:05:14 am »
The author of the book- Steve Buchanan - thinks it?s pretty revolutionary:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1642831247?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
Maybe I should read it, perhaps it would explain it to me more.  I'm not being rhetorical or sarcastic, I'm literally just trying to understand.  Am I in the minority of people who assume most animals, even small ones, are sentient?

By the way, thank you for posting that beautiful Frost poem.
Oh you are welcome.  :smile:  I love Frost, I have a copy of his complete works.  If you are interested in other good ones from him, you might try "Mending Wall", "A Hillside Thaw", and the ever popular "The Road Not Taken".       
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Can you see the signs of the times?
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2023, 07:42:57 am »
Member,
You are definitely not alone. I laugh at scientists that try to reach that animal?s don?t have feelings or that they only have instinct.
I once saw my matriarch cow crying. I had never seen or heard of a cow crying. I?m walked behind her and she showed signs that she had just miscarried her very premature baby. She only cried for one day.
My dad once had a wasp building a nest in behind his ceiling panels above his porch. He decided to block it from getting in to her nest. Every time he did something to block her, she out smarted her and got in. This went on for several minutes and sh would watch my dad as she worked around every thing he did. He was so impressed with her smarts/problem solving that he stopped trying to keep her out and let her build her nest.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin