HELP! The Queen Excluder didn't Exclude Her

[tycrnp]

This is my hive set up: 1 shallow super, QX, 2 brood boxes.

Today when I inspected the hive the super has brood and larvae on ~ 1/2 of the frames.  There is also capped brood in both brood boxes and larvae in the top brood box.  I cam't find the queen, so I don't now which box she is in.  What do I do?!

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

These are my thoughts:

1.  Unlikely, more than one queen, that is a queen on both sides of excluder.

2.  A small queen the can squeeze through excluder.  Give it a day or two and look for the queen again.

3.  A gap in excluder or crack in body of hive allowing queen passage.

4.  Unlikely, Laying workers, is drone brood or worker brood present?

Just a note.  If you have a shy dark queen and dark bees then I find it difficult to find the queen.  I have had to check carefully frame per frame to find one of these shy dark queens.  They can be elusive.  If There is ample food in hive, then no hurries, you will find the queen.  I have missed many a queen the first attempt at locating her only to easily find her the following day, second attempt.
Blessings

[gww]

You could shake the whole hive through a shaker box with a queen excluder on bottom and proby find her.  Lots of guys say to put duct tape around the top of the box that you are shaking into and that the bees don't like to cross the duct tape (not that the won't cross it and climb over the sides but that they don't like to)
I have never tried it but am sure there are vidios on you tube.  It seems like a lot of work but I have heard bee keepers like michael palmer promote the ideal and so take it with a grain of salt from me.
Cheers
gww

[tycrnp]

These are my thoughts:

Unlikely, Laying workers, is drone brood or worker brood present?

I've had laying workers in another hive, and it's not that.  The brood and pattern are beautiful.   

If There is ample food in hive, then no hurries, you will find the queen.  I have missed many a queen the first attempt at locating her only to easily find her the following day, second attempt.
Blessings

There is plenty of food.  One of the frames in the bottom brood box is FULL of honey on both sides, there is honey scattered on other frames in the 2nd brood box, and the other frames in the super I was thinking of harvesting because they are full/capped.  I will look for her again tomorrow.

Thanks!

[little john]

Right now my money would be on Van's #1: two queens, one either side of the QX.

So - you could try splitting the boxes, placing them reasonably close together so that the foragers will enter both, and any re-combining will be easier.  If one of the colonies thus created becomes distressed, that suggests queenlessness within that box. 

Otherwise - wait 3 or 4 days, then look for eggs in both colonies.  If you have eggs in both, then you know well-enough what the situation is.   If you don't - then the eggs will indicate the queen's location (obviously).

Whilst those boxes are split apart - check that QX very carefully - if it's wire, look out for the slightest distortion which could allow a queen to squeeze through it.  Sometimes wires become bent upwards or downwards, so that their spacings look ok from above - but if you look at the wires from an angle, you can then more easily see larger gaps which such distortion creates.

LJ

[Oldbeavo]

Replace the QX with a new one and in a few days you will know by what box or both have fresh eggs, one queen or two queens.
Two queens is instant new hive, bonus.
One year we moved brood to above the Qx and empty frames to the brood box, to allow the queen more room to lay. Some of the hives felt queenless above the QX and started to draw cells even though there was a queen below.
Did you ad the QX when the queen had access to both boxes and left some eggs in the top box?

[BeeMaster2]

This is my hive set up: 1 shallow super, QX, 2 brood boxes.

Today when I inspected the hive the super has brood and larvae on ~ 1/2 of the frames.  There is also capped brood in both brood boxes and larvae in the top brood box.  I cam't find the queen, so I don't now which box she is in.  What do I do?!

I would remove the queen excluder completely. The only queen excluder on any of my hives is on the entrance to my observation hive and that is to keep the queen from leaving, not to keep her from getting to frames.
Jim

[tycrnp]

I would remove the queen excluder completely.

What prevents her from doing exactly this?

[Acebird]

What prevents her from doing exactly this?

Nothing, do as Jim says and solve any problems in the spring if there are any.

[BeeMaster2]

I would remove the queen excluder completely.

What prevents her from doing exactly this?

If you stop the queen from having enough room that she needs you are inducing the bees to swarm. If that happens, they will take half of the honey, even with the excluder installed. Is the super is full of honey, extract it, with the exception of the frames that has brood. I strongly suspect that right now you have a mother and daughter queens laying in this hive. Your older queen is being superceded. Not a bad thing. If you have a good fall flow you may have to add a super even after extracting the 5 frames.
Jim

[tycrnp]

I strongly suspect that right now you have a mother and daughter queens laying in this hive. Your older queen is being superceded. Not a bad thing. If you have a good fall flow you may have to add a super even after extracting the 5 frames.
Jim
[/quote]

That would bee awesome!!  QX is out.  Will pull honey tomorrow.  Thanks much for the guidance.

[BeeMaster2]

I strongly suspect that right now you have a mother and daughter queens laying in this hive. Your older queen is being superceded. Not a bad thing. If you have a good fall flow you may have to add a super even after extracting the 5 frames.
Jim

That would bee awesome!!  QX is out.  Will pull honey tomorrow.  Thanks much for the guidance.
[/quote]
Ty,
Before pulling the honey, feel the weight of the hive. Put the front edge of the Supers, not the front edge of the bottom board, and lift the back. You will be lifting half the weight. More than likely it will be very heavy and you can remove the 5 frames. The bees should have the outer frames in both brood boxes full. They will also start back filling the brood nest soon if they have not started already.
If the hive is light, leave the super.
Jim

[tycrnp]

Rain today.    Will check tomorrow.  Thanks.

[Michael Bush]

While queens can get through an excluder even if you have a bent wire or other problem, they seldom run back and forth between the two very often.  I think a virgin queen flew out to mate and on returning, found her way into the top (probably you have some kind of entrance above the excluder).

[tycrnp]

While queens can get through an excluder even if you have a bent wire or other problem, they seldom run back and forth between the two very often.  I think a virgin queen flew out to mate and on returning, found her way into the top (probably you have some kind of entrance above the excluder).

Oh wow!  I do have a notched inner cover where the bees can probably gain access.  I stand corrected; my hive set up was: telescoping cover, (notched) inner cover, 1 shallow super, QX, 2 brood boxes.   

[tycrnp]

Update: 
Spotted a queen in the super. My original queen was marked, this one is not.  Her mark had been fading (being chewed off?), so I don't know if it is her.  There could be another queen in there...I'm not very good at spotting them (but getting better).

There is more brood/larvae/honey in the super. 

The bottom brood box has 1 frame full of capped honey.

There is brood/larvae/honey on several frames in both brood boxes.  There seems to be more activity (larvae) in the upper of the 2 brood boxes.

Everyone seems happy so I guess just wait and see.....