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Author Topic: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out  (Read 5349 times)

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2021, 10:13:54 pm »
What is a `part` ?

Paus explained it. Thanks Paus.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 10:54:10 pm by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2021, 10:22:26 pm »
Try this HP


One Part This, One Part That

Ask the Test Kitchen

I?m confused when recipes call for 1 part of an ingredient like oil and 2 parts of another ingredient like sugar. Does one part mean 1 ounce? ?R.C., Miami, FloridaParts refer to the measurement?it could be cups, tablespoons, ounces or any other type of measurement you choose.

Let?s say a salad dressing recipe calls for 2 parts oil and 1 part vinegar. The ratio of those two ingredients is 2 to 1. That means that the amount of oil will be double the amount of vinegar. So if you want enough salad dressing to feed your family, you might choose to make 1-1/2 cups, or 1 cup of oil to 1/2 cup vinegar. If you would like a small amount of dressing, say 3 ounces, you would use 2 tablespoons oil and 1 tablespoon vinegar. Both examples have the same ratio of 2 to 1.
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2021, 11:18:32 pm »
According to Mr Binnie in the same video, volume of water and sugar are close in weight, weighing about the same. So it really doesn't matter if you weight it or measure it. But the ratio does have an effect, depending on the desired results and time of year. . Thanks Mr HoneyPump.   
Can you send me a link to this video?

I am sending a PM to you give me a minute.
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2021, 12:12:44 am »
According to Mr Binnie in the same video, volume of water and sugar are close in weight, weighing about the same. So it really doesn't matter if you weight it or measure it. But the ratio does have an effect, depending on the desired results and time of year. . Thanks Mr HoneyPump.   
Can you send me a link to this video?


Alklar20 It wasn't easy, but I found it.
For the information that I described, check out the following. I hope this helps.

Weight vs volume 20:47
"Oddly enough a quart of sugar weighs close to the same as a quart of water".
Bob Binnie

You can add my name to that after my experiment described in above reply 21... 😊

For stimulating comb; start at 25:48
"Approx. 1 part sugar to 1.5 parts water"  26.07
Bob Binnie

https://youtu.be/-NKsGNcx5I0


 
« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 07:31:10 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline rast

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2021, 08:55:43 am »
 One of the first beekeeper quotes I heard.   "A pints a pound the world around"  .
Fools argue; wise men discuss.
    --Paramahansa Yogananda

Offline iddee

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2021, 10:34:12 am »
""The density of granulated sugar is roughly 1.6 times more than water.  So if you mix by volume: mixing equal volumes of sugar and water together your syrup is going to be:   1.6 to 1
Mix the any way you wish and what works for you. However, being in a technical profession, being correct on the method of measurement and the units and stating a number does matter, .. at least to me it does.""

I have to disagree with this. I had an argument with the state bee inspector about this, so I got two half gallon jars and added a quart of sugar to each. Then I filled one with water and added a quart of water to the other. There was less than 2 ounces difference in the two totals.

As Rast said, "a pint is a pound, the world around."
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline beesnweeds

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2021, 10:49:50 am »
According to Mr Binnie in the same video, volume of water and sugar are close in weight, weighing about the same. So it really doesn't matter if you weight it or measure it. But the ratio does have an effect, depending on the desired results and time of year. . Thanks Mr HoneyPump.   

I think they may be a southern beekeeper thing.  I never saw a huge difference between feeding 2:1/1:1 in the spring.  When I do feed its always 2:1, bees are after the carbs and can cap and process it faster as 2:1.  So I found in my area they build comb and brood up a little faster with 2:1.  Compared to Binney I have a short season here in the NE.  The only advantage to 1:1 for me is its quicker to mix if I'm in a hurry.

One thing I did forget to mention is my minis for mating build up MUCH faster on 2:1.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 11:03:27 am by beesnweeds »
Everyone loves a worker.... until its laying.

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Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2021, 01:02:09 pm »
Mixing substances with different states (solid/liquid/gas) and differing densities (SG) by volume ratio does not give the same result as mixing by mass ratio. It is a base principle of concentration of solutions, a chemistry thing.  If/when we say 2:1 or 1:1 or whatever, unless we say how we are mixing it - the ratio being given is meaningless.
(.. I now give up, and bow out ..) 

As posted above, wrt sugar syrup find the mix method that works for you. Under good conditions, the bees will fix the mix anyways. They are experts at adjusting to what they actually need. After all, that is how they make honey from large variations in any sugar water coming in -- aka nectar.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 01:21:12 pm by TheHoneyPump »
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2021, 02:15:09 pm »
Isn't it amazing how different sources get different answers when measuring a cup of sugar and water?  For example, My findings were 7.4 oz for sugar and 7.9 for water.  'lighter than water by volume'.
Honeybee Suite as reported By Member 7.05 oz sugar and 8.3 for water.
Yet when googled, density of sugar ,granulated in 285 units and reference sugar
(7.1 oz/US cup) and water 1 cup = 8 f oz from How much does water weigh?-Bowl of Plenty.

It was not my intention to get into a sugar vs water mixing by volume debate. Or go into such deep detail of each. I was and am simply attempting to answer the OP question of building comb. I did remember the well put together video by Mr Binnin and responded from what I had learned there. However when it was posted and brought to my attention,"The density of granulated sugar is roughly 1.6 times more than water." I had to make sure I wasn't messing up or leading others in a bad way by quoting Mr Binnies words.  So I checked for myself on our kitchen scales. Thats it in a nutshell. lol.. 😊
I hope that helps clear the air.....


                                                                                                                                                                                .
« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 09:27:47 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline AR Beekeeper

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2021, 03:43:54 pm »
Ben;  My wife tells me I can't get an accurate volume measure of sugar unless I sift it.  I know this must be true because she hasn't been wrong once in the last 58 years.

Offline beesnweeds

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2021, 04:19:55 pm »
Yet when googled, density of sugar ,granulated in 285 units and reference sugar

Is that the density of cane, beet, or non GMO beet sugar?  :cheesy:

« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 04:30:33 pm by Ben Framed »
Everyone loves a worker.... until its laying.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2021, 04:27:04 pm »
Ben;  My wife tells me I can't get an accurate volume measure of sugar unless I sift it.  I know this must be true because she hasn't been wrong once in the last 58 years.

AR that makes perfect sense. I suppose different sugar manufacturers produce sugar granules in size as created by the machinery producing these granules? Each granule resting against other granules multiplied until sack is full, will have to have a minute amount of space between each granule? This would or should, make a difference in weight per volume from company to company, depending on their machinery in manufacturing though (slight)? If so that would account for the different weights of sugar, n different test in an '8 oz container' or 'cup'?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 06:37:45 pm by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2021, 04:30:59 pm »
Yet when googled, density of sugar ,granulated in 285 units and reference sugar

Is that the density of cane, beet, or non GMO beet sugar?  :cheesy:




 :cheesy: I love it beesnweeds  :grin: :wink: Thanks for the smile I still have from your post!  :grin: :grin:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2021, 06:27:27 am »
Not sure if this will work


Sugars                       lb/ft3               kg/m3
Sucrose crystal       99.0              1586.2
Amorphous sucrose   94.1            1507.7
Bulk white sugar      54.9              880
Bagged white sugar   43.7           700
Raw sugar (96? Pol) in a pile56.2   900
Bagged raw sugar       42.4                680

So what comes of that is that a sugar crystal has a density of 1.6 but once granulated is at 0.88.

Hope this helps

Offline cao

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2021, 10:18:18 am »
When I make sugar water, I just pour a bunch in a 2 liter soft drink bottle, fill with hot tap water and give it a shake.  Let it sit(usually overnight).  If there is sugar still not dissolved in the bottom the I will add a little more water, if not we are good to go.

Offline AR Beekeeper

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2021, 03:12:09 pm »
I use 5 gallon buckets and a drill with a mixing paddle for 5 gallon buckets of paint.  Knowing that 5 pounds of sugar + 5 pints of water makes 1 gallon of syrup, I can figure out how much sugar/water I must mix to make the number of gallons I intend to feed.  I work with 10 pound sacks of sugar because that is the size that is most economical to buy locally.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2021, 04:33:32 pm »
Ben;  My wife tells me I can't get an accurate volume measure of sugar unless I sift it.  I know this must be true because she hasn't been wrong once in the last 58 years.

That's good enough recommendation for me Mr AR!  My special thanks to Mrs AR... :grin: 
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline AR Beekeeper

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2021, 05:27:24 pm »
Well... to be more accurate I should have said that I have not been able to convince her that she was wrong.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Hive Started from Swarm in Late June Won't Build Out
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2021, 05:55:48 pm »
Well... to be more accurate I should have said that I have not been able to convince her that she was wrong.

 :wink:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

 

anything