To Split or Not to Split? Don't Want to Lose Good Genetics.

[Ben Framed]

In you case of specific need, you might use a screen material (fabric type)? I do not know if bees can chew through these but even if so, they might last long enough to accomplish your needed goal. Do this at your own risk lol. If bees will not chew through this it should solve your problem? 

[The15thMember]

I understand your concern, I live close to the hot humid Mississippi River Delta. I did not have problems with humidity, but I would not want to steer you in a way that you have concerns. (I have had problems with heat in regular hives with foundationless as described in another topic) Slightly wedging the tops cured that.
You probably have already considered this but I will say it just incase, if you use a breathable cloth, use one that bees feet will not be trapped, you do not want a giant SHB/bee trap on top.

In you case of specific need, you might use a screen material (fabric type)? I do not know if bees can chew through these but even if so, they might last long enough to accomplish your needed goal. Do this at your own risk lol. If bees will not chew through this it should solve your problem? 

All good points.  I was thinking about something pretty heavy duty, like canvas or something, because it will need to hold up to me peeling it off when they stick it down with propolis.  I'll have my mom see what she can find at the store.   

[Ben Framed]

I wish you the best in this project. Let us know how things work out.

[AR Beekeeper]

I have inner covers made from canvass, from 4mm plastic sheeting, and from wood.  They all work, and the only difference is price.

Your ventilation should come at the bottom of the hive, with solid bottom boards have a fully open entrance.  If you use open mesh bottom boards and have them fully open that is all that is necessary.

Every beekeeper needs nuc boxes, they are very handy and when stacked a colony can overwinter in them.  The 5 frame boxes are the most practical in my area and I have 60 of them.  If you want to have a chance to save the traits of a colony you like you must make many more splits than you need.  Some will display the desired traits, most will not.  You must make many more queens than are needed and evaluate them and cull.  It is a lot of work, but if you do this every season you can improve the queen quality in your apiary.

[The15thMember]

Your ventilation should come at the bottom of the hive, with solid bottom boards have a fully open entrance.  If you use open mesh bottom boards and have them fully open that is all that is necessary.

It's not the bees I'm worried about with ventilation, it's the equipment.  We have a lot of trouble with mold in my area, and I find that without cross-ventilation my tops mold very quickly.  Some of them still mold anyway, but I've had better luck with the screened covers than with solid ones. 

Every beekeeper needs nuc boxes, they are very handy and when stacked a colony can overwinter in them.  The 5 frame boxes are the most practical in my area and I have 60 of them.  If you want to have a chance to save the traits of a colony you like you must make many more splits than you need.  Some will display the desired traits, most will not.  You must make many more queens than are needed and evaluate them and cull.  It is a lot of work, but if you do this every season you can improve the queen quality in your apiary.

I definitely learned this lesson through this experience.  I have only 8 hives at the moment, my target number being around 10, but I'm definitely at the stage now where I can and need to be more aggressive with culling bad queens and replacing with better ones.  For the first few years, I was really concentrating mostly on keeping my bees alive, and now I that I'm fairly stable on that front, I can focus more on experimenting and breeding.  I don't have any plans to raise queens or anything, but I do always want to be improving my personal stock.   

[Oldbeavo]

We run 3, 4 and 5 frame nucs. 5's are the best for long term holding of queens for use in Autumn.
The 3's are good for splitting as they use less resources when establishing. Also 3's are good for hatching queens as there is less room to find them in.
Bees graduate up in size of nuc as the season progresses if they are not used. Some 5's may go to a hive. You do not need to increase your hive numbers as the new hive can be used to replace a dead-out.

[AR Beekeeper]

15th;  If you have a mildew problem on covers or inner covers wash the affected area with a strong bleach/water solution.  Mildew spores are always around and they will grow on any surface no matter how much ventilation there is.  Notice how it grows on porch decks and railings.  Once it attaches to a surface it must be killed or it continues to grow.  Rinse boxes, bottom boards, inner covers and top covers with bleach before putting them in use to prevent mildew from forming.  It smells but the bees won't care.

Oldbeavo;  I like the 5 frame box with dummy boards to start nucs with less than 5 frames.  They have room to grow and can be stacked to overwinter.  In my area a 5 frame nucs will have 30% overwinter losses, but if a second box of frames of food is given losses drop to 8 or 10%.

[.30WCF]

Is that divider standard height or does it touch the bottom board/screen?

[AR Beekeeper]

The dummy board (not a division board) I make is the same size and shape as a frame except that it is cut from 3/8 or 1/2 inch plywood.  The board confines the bees to side of the box that holds the frames, the empty side is not used for wild comb until a nectar flow causes the bees to begin making it.  When the bees become strong and a flow is on I add foundations to fill out the 5 frames the box is made for. 

[Ben Framed]

The dummy board (not a division board) I make is the same size and shape as a frame except that it is cut from 3/8 or 1/2 inch plywood.  The board confines the bees to side of the box that holds the frames, the empty side is not used for wild comb until a nectar flow causes the bees to begin making it.  When the bees become strong and a flow is on I add foundations to fill out the 5 frames the box is made for.

AR, I might have used the wrong term in reply 8 when I called this a follow board. I think we are talking about the same thing and principle?   

Or you could simply use a follow board, increasing the size of frame capacity when needed by sliding the follow board wider, allowing more frames as needed.

[The15thMember]

The dummy board (not a division board) I make is the same size and shape as a frame except that it is cut from 3/8 or 1/2 inch plywood.  The board confines the bees to side of the box that holds the frames, the empty side is not used for wild comb until a nectar flow causes the bees to begin making it.  When the bees become strong and a flow is on I add foundations to fill out the 5 frames the box is made for.

AR, I might have used the wrong term in reply 8 when I called this a follow board. I think we are talking about the same thing and principle?   

Or you could simply use a follow board, increasing the size of frame capacity when needed by sliding the follow board wider, allowing more frames as needed.

A follower board/dummy board and a division/divider board are not the same.  Follower boards do not actually wall off a section of the hive.  As AR said they are the same size, shape, and bee space as a frame, and they can be used for all sorts of different manipulations.  I'm assuming they act something like a wall in the bees' minds, but they don't actually seal off the area from the bees foot traffic.  A division or divider board is like what I am using, tight to the box walls to prevent even one bee from crossing to the other side.

Is that divider standard height or does it touch the bottom board/screen?

So yes, it goes all the way to the screened bottom board.

15th;  If you have a mildew problem on covers or inner covers wash the affected area with a strong bleach/water solution.  Mildew spores are always around and they will grow on any surface no matter how much ventilation there is.  Notice how it grows on porch decks and railings.  Once it attaches to a surface it must be killed or it continues to grow.  Rinse boxes, bottom boards, inner covers and top covers with bleach before putting them in use to prevent mildew from forming.  It smells but the bees won't care.

Thanks AR, I'll give that a try. 

[Ben Framed]

A follower board/dummy board and a division/divider board are not the same.

Yes I agree. I mentioned both divider board for one purpose in post 8 and a follow board for another purpose in post 8. I am speaking in terms of description of 'follow board' and 'dummy board', asking if they are the same thing. I believe they are, or at least serve the same purpose. I am still learning terms etc even after 3 complete seasons of beekeeping and posting here, beginning in Spring of 2018.. I rely heavily on you at times Member and you attentive research.    Thanks..

[The15thMember]

A follower board/dummy board and a division/divider board are not the same.

Yes I agree. I mentioned both divider board for one purpose in post 8 and a follow board for another purpose in post 8. I am speaking in terms of description of 'follow board' and 'dummy board', asking if they are the same thing. I believe they are, or at least serve the same purpose. I am still learning terms etc even after 3 complete seasons of beekeeping and posting here, beginning in Spring of 2018.. I rely heavily on you at times Member and you attentive research.    Thanks..

Oooohhhh, sorry, I misunderstood your question.  Yes, I too am under the impression they are the same.   

[Ben Framed]

Thanks again my friend, it was probably my fault not being as clear as I should have been lol. Yes I agree being they serve the same purpose they must be the same regardless of description of name, names and terms of bee stuff are still one of my weak areas...  A continuous daily education, always something to learn.     Thanks Member
Phillip

[Oldbeavo]

You can use polystyrene to fill out a nuc to what ever you want, we have some pieces of about 2 3/4" thick that replaces 2 frames.
You can use sides of fish boxes etc, what ever you can find.
Also good insulation
Hint:when you find little bit of white stuff outside the hive, they have run out of room and will start making their own space.

[The15thMember]

Well the experiment was a failure.  I'm not exactly sure what happened.  I checked on the "nucs" today and there were no bees in there at all.  I noticed some robbing going on last evening, but I assume that's because the box was already abandoned.  I did notice some dysentery spots earlier in the week, which may have been from a small beetle slimed section on a honey frame I gave to the one side that I didn't notice before.   There was unhatched capped brood left which I think was dead, as it looked a little off.  Maybe just not enough bees in the box?

As it's getting pretty late in the summer, I'm not going to try again.  The queen whose mother I was questioning is doing extremely well, so I'm hopeful that she is a daughter of Guinevere, and I don't feel quite as concerned about losing the genes now.  She is absolutely GIANT, the biggest queen I've ever seen!  Thanks for all the help anyway, everyone.  Hopefully Guin will make it through the winter, and I'll make some more splits from her in the spring.   

[.30WCF]

Sorry to hear that.

[Ben Framed]

Well the experiment was a failure.  I'm not exactly sure what happened.  I checked on the "nucs" today and there were no bees in there at all.  I noticed some robbing going on last evening, but I assume that's because the box was already abandoned.  I did notice some dysentery spots earlier in the week, which may have been from a small beetle slimed section on a honey frame I gave to the one side that I didn't notice before.   There was unhatched capped brood left which I think was dead, as it looked a little off.  Maybe just not enough bees in the box?

As it's getting pretty late in the summer, I'm not going to try again.  The queen whose mother I was questioning is doing extremely well, so I'm hopeful that she is a daughter of Guinevere, and I don't feel quite as concerned about losing the genes now.  She is absolutely GIANT, the biggest queen I've ever seen!  Thanks for all the help anyway, everyone.  Hopefully Guin will make it through the winter, and I'll make some more splits from her in the spring.   

The spring will be an easier time to make splits in your area as far as success of virgin queens becoming mated queens go. As you already know, that is a time when nectar and pollen are abundant, SHB are few, and drones should be plentiful. Wishing you good multiplying in the coming spring, along with good health to your queen of genetic hopes, "Guin".

[Michael Bush]

A less risky way to do a split is the double screen between two brood boxes.  If it fails you just remove the screen.  If it succeeds, then you do the actual split.

[Ben Framed]

A less risky way to do a split is the double screen between two brood boxes.  If it fails you just remove the screen.  If it succeeds, then you do the actual split.

Yes and probably the best way, especially this time of year. Good point Mr Bush.