Looks like swarming

[LizzieBee]

Last week my hive was overflowing with bees and I found quite a few queen cells. I decided to do a split, or what I thought was a split. So I took a few frames with queen cells and put them in an empty hive, also put a few frames of honey and a frame full of pollen. I shook some more bees into the hive just to be safe, and closed it up. This week when I checked on them all the queen cells had been destroyed and I found a new queen. One of her wings was completely wrinkled, and she wasn?t very plump like the queen from my other two hives. So I put her in a queen cage while I checked the hive that I made the split from. It has so much honey in the super but also tons of drones in that area (about half the bees in the super are drones). And I?m assuming they are eating lots of my honey. I didn?t find any eggs at all, just more queen cells. I did find the queen though. I?ve noticed an occasional worker or drone with wrinkled wings, I?m assuming from varroa mites. Also I have been seeing mites on the drones.  Either my queen has the parasite or a mite got into the cell of the new queen from the split.

I wasn?t entirely sure what to do with the new queen, especially since she had a wrinkled wing which would keep her from going on her mating flight. So, I hope this was ok, that I squished her and put new frames of queen cells in the hive.

Any ideas or advice?

-Lizzie

[BeeMaster2]

That is the right thing to do. She can never mate and will only produce drones.
Jim Altmiller

[iddee]

X2

[Ben Framed]

Good job Lizzie, now do something about those mites. 😁

[LizzieBee]

Any ideas why my older hive doesn?t have any eggs? I saw the queen, and there were plenty of frames with empty cells she could lay in. Also, I realized the queen cells are supersedure (on the sides of the frames, rather than the bottom). Could they be trying to requeen? Guinevere is a 2018 queen, so only about a year old.

As for the mites, I?ve been doing a powdered sugar dusting each time I open the hive for the past month or so. If it gets worse, I will get a better treatment.

Thanks for affirming my decision... I felt bad killing the queen! :(

Lizzie

[Ben Framed]

Lizzie, I am learning also and have much to learn. I am thinking the cells on the sides of the frames are emergency cells. The bottoms would be your supersedure cells. As to why she is not laying will be a guess for my part. I have read that they will sometimes stop laying when they are in a dearth. I would not think you would be in a dearth this time of year. Someone else will need to educate us both on this question. I will ask,  Could she have possibly been injured somehow?
Phillip

[LizzieBee]

Ben,

The queen cells were capped as if there was a queen inside, so not queen cups or anything. This hive seemed like it wanted to swarm last week. There is so much honey in there, too.

I don?t think they?re in a dearth right now. Lots of citrus and wildflowers blooming.

She doesn?t appear to be injured, I even double checked the pictures I took of her today. Looks like she hasn?t lost a leg or anything.

Lizzie

[Ben Framed]

Ben,

The queen cells were capped as if there was a queen inside, so not queen cups or anything. This hive seemed like it wanted to swarm last week. There is so much honey in there, too.

I don?t think they?re in a dearth right now. Lots of citrus and wildflowers blooming.

She doesn?t appear to be injured, I even double checked the pictures I took of her today. Looks like she hasn?t lost a leg or anything.

Lizzie

Lizzie, I really do not know. I am thinking swarm cells are at the bottom so I can not even guess why she is not laying.,  Maybe someone else will chime in on this one. I will take one more wild guess, It could be that they are so invaded by mites that they are getting ready to abscond? This is only a wild guess. Maybe someone with more experience will chime in?
Phillip
Phillip

[Ben Framed]

By  TheHoneyPump

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NvP-olm7vwMxPVH-Oi1CNHH70Wq913ym/view

Phillip

[The15thMember]

By  TheHoneyPump

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NvP-olm7vwMxPVH-Oi1CNHH70Wq913ym/view

Phillip

Great idea to post that, Phillip. 

Any ideas why my older hive doesn?t have any eggs? I saw the queen, and there were plenty of frames with empty cells she could lay in. Also, I realized the queen cells are supersedure (on the sides of the frames, rather than the bottom). Could they be trying to requeen? Guinevere is a 2018 queen, so only about a year old.

As for the mites, I?ve been doing a powdered sugar dusting each time I open the hive for the past month or so. If it gets worse, I will get a better treatment.

Thanks for affirming my decision... I felt bad killing the queen! :(

Lizzie

Lizzie, if you are seeing mites on bees and evidence of wing virus, I'd say the hive is very infested with varroa mites, and you are going to need to use something much more intense than powered sugar at this point.  The hive that HoneyPump's powerpoint is analyzing is my hive from last year, so as you can see, I learned that lesson the hard way. 

I can't speak to why the queen isn't laying, so hopefully someone more experienced will chime in. 

I am thinking the cells on the sides of the frames are emergency cells. The bottoms would be your supersedure cells.

   
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that supersedure cells were considered emergency cells.  Swarm cells are typically at the bottoms of combs, and emergency cells are in the middle, on the face of the comb.  That's what I always heard anyway.     

[Ben Framed]

Thanks member, I was not thinking, if you look at my post number 7 you will see that I got it right . 😊😁
Phillip

[The15thMember]

Thanks member, I was not thinking, if you look at my post number 7 you will see that I got it right . 😊😁
Phillip

Oh, you're right, you did correct yourself then.  Sorry I missed it.    

[Ben Framed]

Thanks member, I was not thinking, if you look at my post number 7 you will see that I got it right . 😊😁
Phillip

Oh, you're right, you did correct yourself then.  Sorry I missed it.   

Thanks for your input! You have learned much quickly! Keep up the good work. 👍🏻😁
Phillip

[ed/La.]

The bees could be pulling the eggs as fast as she is laying them. A brood break helps with mite infested hiveas. I would suggest treating during brood break. A dribble of oxalic  acid once might be enough.  If there is queen cells there would be capped brood near by or bees pulled them. Queens emerge in 16 days and worker in 21. There should be brood 5 days after queen emerges.

[Ben Framed]

The bees could be pulling the eggs as fast as she is laying them. A brood break helps with mite infested hiveas. I would suggest treating during brood break. A dribble of oxalic  acid once might be enough.  If there is queen cells there would be capped brood near by or bees pulled them. Queens emerge in 16 days and worker in 21. There should be brood 5 days after queen emerges.

That is an angle that I had not considered  Ed  Interesting, thanks
Phillip 

[LizzieBee]

Wow. It does sound like they might abscond. I?m going to find a stronger mite treatment.

Lizzie

[LizzieBee]

Checked the hives today. The spilt looks pretty bad. I found the new queen. She looks a little small like a virgin queen. Unlike the previous queen, she has healthy wings. It didn?t look like she destroyed all the other queen cells, so I wasn?t sure if she had just hatched or what. I squished the other queen cells...don?t know if that was a good idea. All but one of them were at a very young stage but capped. I didn?t find any eggs either, except in one queen cup which was very strange to see. It was on a frame that hadn?t been drawn at all.  I don?t know if it was the queen or a laying worker. This is all puzzling. Lots of mites. I saw them on a few bees which means it is very severe. I?m trying to keep treatments natural, so I made a blend of powdered sugar with dried thyme. I picked up each individual frame and dusted both sides really well. They don?t appear to be drawing out any of the frames. I?m kind of getting experimental with this hive and I also placed a few mint leaves on the tops of the frames. I haven?t heard of this method, just made it up and will see if it works. Let me know if I?m being too experimental.

The original hive looks a lot better. I didn?t see any mites. I didn?t see the queen or eggs which really confuses me. They stopped making queen cells. Still lots of honey and pollen. There is plenty of space too for the queen to lay eggs but I didn?t see any. I did find some larva at a very tiny stage though. They?re drawing out some empty frames also. I saw a lot of drones. They must be older because this hive doesn?t have as much drone brood as earlier this spring. Dusted it with the powdered sugar blend, and left some mint leaves.

I have a third hive that I was given in March that I don?t talk about very often but it is doing so well. The queen managed to fly out at some point during the inspection and I found her on the cinderblock next to the hive. I?m getting ready to put a honey super on this hive.

Lizzie

[Ben Framed]

Lizzie, Live Oak posted this a while back and I suggest you watch it if you have not already. Good Luck! Phillip

https://youtu.be/DK2Xi0ST4rA

[ed/La.]

With powdered sugar you want to get the bees not in the comb. It will kill the larva/eggs by drying them out. The sugar does not kill the mites it cause them to fall off when bees groom themselves and mites fall through screen bottom board. You do have screen bottoms? Your   mite cycle has been disrupted by the broodless period. The count should be dropping. I would consider giving them a frame of eggs from you good hive and see what happens. The Hopkins method of queen rearing uses 22 bullets placed in selected cells with fresh eggs and the frame is powdered sugar to kill the eggs and larva around it. http://www.personal.psu.edu/jad52/blogs/bee_log/2011/05/queen-rearing-workshop.html

[BeeMaster2]

Lizzie,
Like Ed said, you do not want to dust the comb.
With using the powered sugar method you need to do it every three days. If you are taking the hive apart to do that, becides the fact that you are killing the eggs and larvae, the bees will eventually blame all of the disruptions on the queen and ball her.
Open the top of the hive and with a siv, sprinkle the sugar over the frames, about a cupful.
Jim Altmiller

[The15thMember]

I?m trying to keep treatments natural,

There are other non-chemical treatments than powdered sugar.  You could try oxalic acid, thymol, or formic acid, to name some.  I'm not experienced enough to know what would be best for your area, so you might want to do some research on them and see what you think you'd like to try.  I used Mite Away Quick Strips (a formic acid treatment) last year on my hive that did not abscond, and it worked for me.  I would think you are going to want to do something pretty quick though, since the situation seems to be rather advanced based on what you are seeing.