Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: Ben Framed on February 11, 2019, 10:12:40 pm
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I am planning on doing several splits as soon as the time is right. I am at a dilemma as far as oil pans or trays are concerned. I have made my own, customized to fit properly in the bottom holding box, (wall to wall) but this takes time. I have made them from flashing. Which is not so cheap when you add up the time and material. I also have made some from plastic coated foam board that you can easily purchase at any dollar store, or Walmart etc with the advantage of making two Nuc size trays from an eighty-eight cent board. but takes time. What I am hoping to find is some type of material that I can simply (paint) on the inside of the bottom board box which holds the oil tray, thus eliminating the oil tray, and will dry and set up as similar to a plastic finish. I have thought of fiber glass. But as I said am hoping to find something which sets up similar to plastic. Does anyone here know of such a product? I am persuaded that the entire bottom of the hive should have a screen to be completely effective against SHB, along with a wall to wall oil containment beneath that area. My theory is a partial oil tray or pan is not, or cannot be as effective as complete bottom coverage. If a hive beetle happens to fall through the bottom screen and misses the pan. It can simply crawl back up, through the screen and live to slime the hive on another day. This is something that I can't tolerate if at all possible. Once they fall through the bottom screen, I want them in the oil. Dead and done.
Thanks, Phillip
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I am now making some DSBB (Double screen bottom boards)full screen top and bottom, some with back half of top board screened to catch more dropped pollen. some with two 6" round holes in the back with screens over the holes. No conclusions yet. The best thing I have found is to hand roll the edge of used aluminum casserole pans to fit the space between the screens. They are deep enough that the hive can tilt preferably forward without spilling oil. By doing this I am completely away from the mess, I usually pour the oil in 5 gallon bucket. I have not made a mess except last week I let a hive escape my grip and it tilted over and spilled the organic oil on the ground where it will return to its organic origin. I forgot rule one; remove the pan before moving. I am sure nothing like this ever happened to any of you. I had no protection except my jacket that was tightly pulled over my head. Did not get any arthritis treatment by the bees. They settled down in 5 minutes.
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I am now making some DSBB (Double screen bottom boards)full screen top and bottom, some with back half of top board screened to catch more dropped pollen. some with two 6" round holes in the back with screens over the holes. No conclusions yet. The best thing I have found is to hand roll the edge of used aluminum casserole pans to fit the space between the screens. They are deep enough that the hive can tilt preferably forward without spilling oil. By doing this I am completely away from the mess, I usually pour the oil in 5 gallon bucket. I have not made a mess except last week I let a hive escape my grip and it tilted over and spilled the organic oil on the ground where it will return to its organic origin. I forgot rule one; remove the pan before moving. I am sure nothing like this ever happened to any of you. I had no protection except my jacket that was tightly pulled over my head. Did not get any arthritis treatment by the bees. They settled down in 5 minutes.
Joe May said that he use to make the solid bottom boards with holes in the back, with #8 hardware cloth, (screen), and a jar underneath with oil inside. I am thinking that he told me that he no longer is doing this. As I had ask him in the comment section. You might want to check out his video if you haven't already>
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BF, you can make a slide in drawer from the back under sbb. And shellac the inside it will hold oil. But you better make sure it is bee proof if not bees will try and get in through bottom of screen and drowned.
I had a friend that used them , i thought it was to much work. Using old frying oil and it smell's after awhile.
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BF, you can make a slide in drawer from the back under sbb. And shellac the inside it will hold oil. But you better make sure it is bee proof if not bees will try and get in through bottom of screen and drowned.
I had a friend that used them , i thought it was to much work. Using old frying oil and it smell's after awhile.
Thanks Mikey, I lost a hive last year to these little rascals. Paus along with others turned me toward oil pans with screened bottom boards. Worked good, I was stingy with my oil so I put water in the oil trays, added Mothers apple cider vinegar, just enough to reach a smell in the water, mixed slightly with a plastic spoon, them added enough oil to float on top creating a (seal) hoping to slow down everapation of the water. Worked great! Also little to no mold! Never stunk, but that was late in the season. Now if I can just find a quick easy effective and efficient way to make up custom fitted oil trays, I feel I wil have the SHB problem nipped n the bud. HOPEFULLY 😊😁. Thanks Mikey
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Ben,
Have you tried Flexseal? It comes as a spray or brush on paint. It does take about 24 hours to dry.
It does seal in water/oil real well.
Jim
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BenFramed: .Also little to no mold! Never stunk, but that was late in the season.
Mr Ben, hope issues are better with your Dad.
-Regarding your above quote {Never stunk} remember honeybees have a sense of smell that is hundreds of times greater than humans.
-Further I use apple cider vinegar as a deterrent to honeybees. To make a wasp and moth traps , I use water sugar banana peel and vinegar. I do not catch honey bees but I catch yellow jackets, bald face hornets, European Hornets, few red wasp and loads of moths. If I leave off the vinegar, I will catch honey bees.
-I tried oil trays, to much black nasty mold so I switched to diaton earth, food grade. Works with my Freeman bottom board that has a virtual airtight tray. Freeze spray is a must for mites running into cells if you don?t mind the price.
May your bees prosper, Buddy.
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Ben,
Have you tried Flexseal? It comes as a spray or brush on paint. It does take about 24 hours to dry.
It does seal in water/oil real well.
Jim
No I haven't Jim, thanks, this may be the answer. And readly available!
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BenFramed: .Also little to no mold! Never stunk, but that was late in the season.
Mr Ben, hope issues are better with your Dad.
-Regarding your above quote {Never stunk} remember honeybees have a sense of smell that is hundreds of times greater than humans.
-Further I use apple cider vinegar as a deterrent to honeybees. To make a wasp and moth traps , I use water sugar banana peel and vinegar. I do not catch honey bees but I catch yellow jackets, bald face hornets, European Hornets, few red wasp and loads of moths. If I leave off the vinegar, I will catch honey bees.
-I tried oil trays, to much black nasty mold so I switched to diaton earth, food grade. Works with my Freeman bottom board that has a virtual airtight tray. Freeze spray is a must for mites running into cells if you don?t mind the price.
May your bees prosper, Buddy.
Thank you for asking, he is making progress, though slow. He had another set back with pneumonia . But seems to be making progress just the same.
Yes sir, I understand what you are telling me about the mothers, perhaps the thin layer of oil on top seals the vinigar scent which is in the water, enough to not annoy the bees? They didn't seem to mind it last fall. The real test will be this spring and summer when the heat of the summer rolls around. Jim was telling me last year that the more beetles which were trapped, drowned; the more they, the beetles, seemed to be attracted. Did I get that right Jim? Thanks for your input friends.
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Ben,
That is correct. The dead beetles seem to attract more beetles. I have had 2 local commercial beeks also tell me that also.
Jim
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Ben,
That is correct. The dead beetles seem to attract more beetles. I have had 2 local commercial beeks also tell me that also.
Jim
Good, what could be better, considering the reality that they are probably here to stay. Its comforting to know that we have an effective method of knocking their socks off, so to speak.....Thank you Jim, Paus, Mr Van-Stinger13, and MikeyNC.
Phillip
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Phillip,
One SBB with an oil trap will kill more beetles than 10 hives with beetle traps.
Jim
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Phillip,
One SBB with an oil trap will kill more beetles than 10 hives with beetle traps.
Jim
This is a comfort to know Jim. Let me ask you, and you may have already told me and my mind may have slipped, haa haa, and this wouldn't be the first time I must confess :grin: Do you have the SBB oil tray combination under each hive or do you skip along X number of hives and place another? What about you other guys? This is Interesting to me.
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Phillip,
I originally made all of my bottoms with oil trays and the first couple of years I had oil in all of them. I used them and the closest Beek also used them. When I had 12 hives with oil, every one of them had solid black trays, full of beetles, every month until winter. That spring, I and my neighbor both had very few beetles and we both stopped putting oil in the trays. I did continue to open the trays and kill the ones in the trays. I also kill them in the screen top boards.
My bees have also learned how to deal with them. Our population of SHBs, here at the farm is very low.
Jim
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Awesome. Even though the pans are empty now without the oil, I am supposing that the old smell of the oil and beetles which was once there will still draw the SHB through the screen, hopefully detouring them from going straight up into the hives. Or perhaps the bees chase them down? Or maybe some of both? Irreguardless, I am glad for you that you and your neighbor did such a swell job getting them under control! Really Jim y'all had more that a problem, sounds as if you were infested. It is encouraging to me that an extreme problem such as y'all had can be handled. I really appreciate you sharing this with us.
Phillip
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Phillip,
The reason the beetles end up in the oil tray is because the bees harass them on the comb and they fall on the SBB and then into the tray. There is usually pollen in it so when dry you have to check them weekly.
Jim
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Phillip,
The reason the beetles end up in the oil tray is because the bees harass them on the comb and they fall on the SBB and then into the tray. There is usually pollen in it so when dry you have to check them weekly.
Jim
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Great stuff Jim!!!
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I had the slide out trays with oil under the sbb for awhile, then I switched over to water with some cheap dish washing liquid in it. In the heat of summer you have to check levels of mixture and add more water. It doesn't smell like the oil when you have dead shbs. I do have water close to my hives. I don't have a lot but in my figuring a bees life isn't long in the spring and summer so I have a waterer within a few feet to the hives with a Styrofoam for them to land on, the less they have to go for water the longer they should be able to bring in pollen and nectar. Just my thoughts on that. Yep, I still do get carried away some times. Oh, and the soapy water when needing to be replaced I just take out a little ways from hives and dump it out, rinse it with fresh water and refill with the water/ dish washing liquid.
Good luck to you and your bees,
Joe D
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Thanks Joe, do your slide out trays fit wall to wall below your screen bottom board? (Cover the whole bottom) ?
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I've always had a question about bottom trays - it doesn't seem right [to me] to put something so "smelly" in a hive. It seems like the bees wouldn't "like" it (for lack of a more technical term).
If you've got a major problem - then you have too, for sure. ... I just wish there was some data regarding how things like oil trays affect the ecosystem (communication? Balance?) in a hive. ... just my thoughts really.
(Disclosure: It's easy for me to say this - I don't have the problem)
Good thread Phillip - this question has been "bugging" me, and I hope you don't mind.
Alan
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I've always had a question about bottom trays - it doesn't seem right [to me] to put something so "smelly" in a hive. It seems like the bees wouldn't "like" it (for lack of a more technical term).
If you've got a major problem - then you have too, for sure. ... I just wish there was some data regarding how things like oil trays affect the ecosystem (communication? Balance?) in a hive. ... just my thoughts really.
(Disclosure: It's easy for me to say this - I don't have the problem)
Good thread Phillip - this question has been "bugging" me, and I hope you don't mind.
Alan
I think that is a very good question Alan. Last late summer, early fall, I had cut out some hives from some homes. What looked fun and easy by Schawee and JP, wasn't so easy for me! I don't know if I was called as a last resort person, and others had culled the jobs that I was "lucky enough to find"or weather it was just luck of the draw! 😁 I did not get one Easy cut out. They were either Hard to reach, high locations, tight spots, sun bearing down no shade no help etc. . Well I got em and I was in the bee business! .😊😁 And I was one happy fellow and pleased that I had succeeded in spite of the odds! All was good until the SHB showed up! Brother let me tell you! I tried most everything but still lost a hard earned hive! These monsters proved to be an up hill fight! After all the hard work sweat, time invested, equipment built from scratch etc, I declared war! I was determined to STOP the invaders! I ask here, Jim, Paus, Mr Van and several others, as best to my recollection, steered me toward the sbb and oil pan, Mr Van to the earth material and freeze spray. Since I had access to free cooking oil, clean used oil, I choose this route. Now keep in mind. By this time it was late summer-early fall. I used the oil pans as described and this got them under control. I never had the stinking although I did have some pollen and many SHB in the pans. Now weather it was the mothers vinegar and water mix sealed with a thin layer of oil, or weather it was just not given enough time, being it was late in the season, I simply didn't have the stinking that others have described. But even if I had, I realize the cause of the smell would have been out of reach of the bees, which should have been sanitary, being the bees were on the other side of the screen and couldn't possiably touch the mixture, and to save or loose my bees was not be a hard choice to make. Now in Jims situation, he and his neighbor was totally infested. Mine had not reached this critical point in the time period that I have described, but losing even one hive is one to many. At least we do have a way to effectively do something with them, the (SHB). I am thankful to to all who advised me. And for all the help and advice given I appreciate. I do have the free oil and I do know it works, but, if it does start stinking, and to the unbearable point that I or the bees can't take it, I may Switch to the earth product, which Mr Van and Randy (628 dirt rooster) and others use. I am confident that this will also work as both of these fellows are pretty good folks and would not steer me wrong. But I am thinking the mixture that I used past season just may stop the stinking problem and I experienced no mold to speak of, as a matter of fact, I don't recall seeing any mold in my pans.
Phillip
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Keep in mind that if you are using water in the trays, you are adding humidity to the hive. May not be a problem in dry areas but here in Florida with constant 86% plus humidity, you do not want to make it harder to remove water from the nectar than it already is.
Jim
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Good answer Phillip. You do what you must. I didn't want to treat for mites - but when you can't get 1 hive thru winter (if we have such a thing here) even with splits, and brood breaks, and drone freezing, and ... .... well, you do what you must.
If I went to all that work to get bees, I'd be ****** at the SHB also! :happy: good work on your part. I bet cutouts sure feel rewarding. :happy: ... not for me if I can help it - that always sounds like work, and I'm too lazy. I put out boxes and wait for them to come to me. Haha!
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I bet cutouts sure feel rewarding. :happy: ... not for me if I can help it - that always sounds like work, and I'm too lazy. I put out boxes and wait for them to come to me. Haha!
Haha here too! I did this just to get started, it was very interesting, and a good way to jump in with both feet! You learn how to handle bees really fast! Thanks to JP and Schawee and their videos and correspondence was the key! That was the confidence builder that I needed! Thanks fellows!
I aquired some hardy bees, but I won't be advertising for more cutouts that is, (If my seven hives make it through and so far so good!)! Now, if someone happens to call me then I might go and do it. I plan on putting out boxes and doing splits.
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Haha here too! I did this just to get started, it was very interesting, and a good way to jump in with both feet! You learn how to handle bees really fast! ...
You ain't just-a whoofin'. That's the deep end of the pool - for a beginner! Nicely done! :cool: :cool:
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Haha here too! I did this just to get started, it was very interesting, and a good way to jump in with both feet! You learn how to handle bees really fast! ...
You ain't just-a whoofin'. That's the deep end of the pool - for a beginner! Nicely done! :cool: :cool:
Thanks, I had helped my uncle a little when I was younger, I was very little help. More in the way was probably a better description. :shocked:
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Phillip - the impact that adults have on a child's life is amazing to me. And you just don't know what will impact them.
My dad had bees for several yrs. He built a large platform overlooking the valley (upstate NY) and set 2 hives on it. The platform could have easily fit 40 hives. Then he got stung somehow thru his full body bee suit (I can still see him in it) and had a bad reaction. He never went near those hives again, and instructed us to never go there also. ... So, I built a fort under the hive platform. I spent countless summer hours in my fort, watching in fascination thru the cracks above as the bees came and went about their business. ... I've wanted bees ever since.
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I've ended up making my own screened bottom boards with a tray out of redwood for SHB control.
Here's a SHB kill after 24 hours using soapy water.
Most of the time I keep the trays dry and inspect and clean them every five days or so.
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Mr. Ben: the oil works, oil with water and/or vinegar works, water and soap work, diatomaceous earth works. They all work, some are more suited for specific areas but I could use any above and kill beetles. Do what is easiest and productive for you.
I use diatomaceous earth with a small plug of pollen patty for bait.
INFESTATION: In 2016 I had a feral live within range of my bees and the feral hive was a breeding factory for beetles. Being in a tree, the larva could drop to the bottom of the tree, cocoon and off and running. Larva did not even need to leave the hive with soft bottom, rotten wood. I had beetles arriving in my hives averaging 1 beetle every 45 seconds. My sbb caught 20 beetles a night per hive. Many bees made it into the hive. I did not lose a single hive but had to work constantly at eradicating.
The only good thing about a feral hive loaded with beetles is they don?t survive for long. So the following year, 2017, the beetle population dropped tremendously. There are no registered hives within 3 miles of my apiary. However beetles can fly for miles, I have bee told.
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Yes Sir Mr Van, I am confident that all these methods work with the testimonials given by so many helpful beekeepers. Soapy water, oil, and diatomaceous earth beneath the SBB. And one more thing I will add to the arsenal of defense. I fully intend to have on hand, some of the freeze spray that you use as well. It's wonderful to have these options, especially after loosing a hive to the beetles. It was an aweful sight and a sick feeling, seeing my bees with the maggots, slime and stench that the yeast mixture of the fermented mixture, afforded. Wasted honey and lost hard work. For the time being, I will stick with the oil. I have an abundant supply and it was free. I will keep an open mind to the other tried and true methods as well. I suppose that with the small hive beetle, being so prevalent here in The South, it's a wonder that any feral hives can survive. It was nice to find such hives, my starter hives, and have the opportunity to use the cutout method to retrieve them. One thing that I noticed on the feral hives was the color of the bees and their queen. A darker colored bee than the queens that I purchased from David at barnyard bees. However the queens that I got from David, quickly built up the nucs, from my emergency splits, and in the late season I may add. I am looking forward to the coming season and making as many splits as is reasonable in a reasonable time frame. Thanks to you all here for your input which = help.
Sincerely Phillip
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I've ended up making my own screened bottom boards with a tray out of redwood for SHB control.
Here's a SHB kill after 24 hours using soapy water.
Most of the time I keep the trays dry and inspect and clean them every five days or so.
Beeboy, I like your trays. Good set up!! Knock em dead !! Thanks for posting ..
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Ben, just got back on tonight, yes pans go from side to side. Now I made the wider at the top to cover from one side to the other, with a little slant on the sides to a slightly narrower bottom and the pan depth is about 2 1/2 in. and I fill them from 1 1/2 to 2". I have a hinged cover for the opening where I slide the pan in and out , with a screen door latch to keep it closed.
Joe D
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That is the way I am making my latest "prototype" DSBB. This has prevented the comb from being built on the bottom of the screen of the bottom board and no bees can get in the oil to drown, I am also using 1 to 2 inches of oil in aluminum casserole dishes. I make them stronger by rolling the edges to fit in a 2 1/2 inch door, and this makes them much stronger so the pan can be removed to strain the oil or discard as needed. Maybe another tip, I use a high speed cutter with a 3 inch abrasive wheel to cut the #8 hardware cloth, fast and accurate, AFTER the cloth is stapled to the wood. This leaves a smoother edge. Cost of the cutter $20 -$30 dollars.
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I use screen bottom boards > whe I find a hive infested heavily with SHB I insert the tray with oil, open up the hive and dust the bees with powder sugar , Works well for me. I remove the tray within 24 hours
Gets rid of most of the SHB and some mites at the same time.
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I use screen bottom boards > whe I find a hive infested heavily with SHB I insert the tray with oil, open up the hive and dust the bees with powder sugar , Works well for me. I remove the tray within 24 hours
Gets rid of most of the SHB and some mites at the same time.
Thanks BrianMcq, Your method, is one that I haven't heard of, at least in the same way. Sounds like a good plan, thanks for sharing. Does the power sugar also help run the beetles down along with the mites, or do you think they, (Beetles), would wind up in the oil irreguardless? And by the way.
Welcome to Beemaster!!
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I have mentioned several times through the years that Beemaster2 and Paus taught me the use of oil trays for "Small Hive Beetle"riddance. This is one of those conversations. Coolbees also chimed in, reporting of the devastation of yearly colony loss from "Varroa Destructor". He reported he could not successfully make it through even one winter without treating...
I am refreshing this for both causes, mainly Small HIve Beetles and the use of oil trays..
Phillip
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Do we have these beetles in SEPA? If so, the info will be of value to me. I was talking with my neighbor yesterday and we were discussing hives and hives maintenance. He said that he has not had a SHB problem but he's new to it and I'm not so sure about his uncle who is is mentor. He also assured me that we have no varroa mites 'round here and I'm not so believing that, which makes me question his SHB claim even more. Additionally, he has had hives die and abscond this year so I'm really suspect.
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Terri,
SHBs have a hard time surviving that far north. They cannot survive a freeze and if you still have a deep frost line there larvae will be killed during winter. Only SHBs that are in the hive during winter can survive so if you do a good fall inspection and kill any in the hive they are not a problem.
Very few beekeepers have SHB problems that far north.
Jim Altmiller
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Just to clarify, you do definitely have varroa mites though. :smile:
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Yes even TheHoneyPump has to deal with Varroa Destructor in the 'far' North of Canada..
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Just to clarify, you do definitely have varroa mites though. :smile:
I did figure as much and I suspect that that's why his hive absconded.
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Just to clarify, you do definitely have varroa mites though. :smile:
I did figure as much and I suspect that that's why his hive absconded.
At least you don't have to put up with SHB... If given a choice, (which I do not have, as I have both) , I would rather deal with Varroa... Some might not agree...
Phillip
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Just to clarify, you do definitely have varroa mites though. :smile:
I did figure as much and I suspect that that's why his hive absconded.
At least you don't have to put up with SHB... If given a choice, (which I do not have, as I have both) , I would rather deal with Varroa... Some might not agree...
Phillip
Having no experience and just reading, I agree with you. I have also been taking in what I can about going treatment free but it does not sound like it works well. I'm but a mere retired truck driver but I don't see how the bees can become resistant. For comparison, my cats have not become flea resistant.
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There has to be selection to build resistance. I.e. the ones not resistant have to die to be removed from the gene pool. Fleas don't kill cats.
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There has to be selection to build resistance. I.e. the ones not resistant have to die to be removed from the gene pool. Fleas don't kill cats.
What do the mites do to the bees?
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To put it in simple terms; They not only suck away body fat of the bee, which is like the bees liver which WILL bring certain and early death of the bee, but cary 'several' viruses that can and 'will' take the an entire colony. They did not name this mite "Varroa Destructor" for noting. lol
Phillip
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To put it in simple terms; They not only suck away body fat of the bee, which is like the bees liver which WILL bring certain and early death of the bee, but cary 'several' viruses that can and 'will' take the an entire colony. They did not name this mite "Varroa Destructor" for noting. lol
Phillip
OK, and what could make the bees more resistant to them? I don't see how they could evolve out of that eating of their body fat thing but I suppose that they could build resistance to the other diseases. Plus, it looks to me like you rarely eliminate the mite completely, just control their population to something that won't kill the hive. In that case, shouldn't they build resistance during the treatment process, if they can?
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Those points and more have been the discussed and debated all along between treatment and non treatment folks ... Each coming up with some fair points explaining their point of view and theories. Of course the dispute still marches on...
A few questions referring to a dependable feasible strand of a "Varroa Resistant Bee":
If that strand of bee exist, would not the world be using that strand of bee? Especially Commercial beekeepers? And wouldn't the originator of that stran of bee, be in the headlines of every bee magazine, newspaper and bee journal? As well and the talk of every college campus and research center the world over, which studies or has studied Varroa Destructor vs Bees ? If not why?
Phillip
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OK, and what could make the bees more resistant to them? I don't see how they could evolve out of that eating of their body fat thing but I suppose that they could build resistance to the other diseases. Plus, it looks to me like you rarely eliminate the mite completely, just control their population to something that won't kill the hive.
The biggest problem is that varroa vector diseases, particularly viruses. There is never a 100% infestation of mites, literally 1 mite on every bee; the worst infestation I've ever seen was like 25%, so 1/4 of the bees in the colony had mites. Even if 1/4 of the bees are killed by the physical attack of the mites, that colony can still survive, as 3/4 of them still live to fight another day. The problem comes when 1/4 of the colony is infected with a virus or several, and then the bees with mites spread that virus to the rest of the colony. This is how a colony collapses from varroa. We say we hope the bees develop "resistances to mites", but what we really mean is that we hope they develop resistance to the effects of the mites, not the mites themselves, because as you imply, the mites themselves are here to stay.
In that case, shouldn't they build resistance during the treatment process, if they can?
This causes the mites, not the bees, to develop resistance to the treatment. Synthetic chemical treatments only take out mites that are susceptible to them, and leave the resistant ones alive, so eventually the whole population in an area is resistant. This has happened with several mite treatments on the market. Some organic treatments, like OAV and formic, don't develop resistance in mites, or at least anywhere near as quickly, since they usually attack the mites more "mechanically", sort of in the same way that the mites attack the bees' fat bodies mechanically.
Edit: I forget to mention something. There is a way to make the bees resistance to the mites themselves, and that is breed bees with hygienic behavior, bees that clean the mites off, actively attack the mites, or pull pupae infested with mites before they have a chance to breed.
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I did an inspection on my horizontal inspection hive this past weekend. When I built the hive I put in a screened bottom board with DE fairly thick below. I didn't think far enough ahead to make this area asily accessible but will in future builds. That said in the de below I saw a half dozen or so mature shb dead in the DE, many squiggles leading nowhere, and some dark specks sprinkled here and there. No active beetles anywhere that i could find though i didn't search hard, was a quick inspection. Like I said next time they'll be accessible. I could move that hive to another body as well and modify this one and may well do so.