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Author Topic: Ed Clark's constructive hive design  (Read 5360 times)

Offline GDRankin

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Ed Clark's constructive hive design
« on: June 16, 2014, 09:48:49 pm »
Is there anyone using this design or know of anyone that has tried the designs?
I'm in the process of building some top covers and after reading Ed Clark's book, I'm considering something along these lines and am curious what (if any) results others have found with his ideas?

Thanks,
GD
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Offline AllenF

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Re: Ed Clark's constructive hive design
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2014, 09:06:32 pm »
From his 1918 book?   His ideas have been tried over and over.  How many of them are available commercially today?

Offline GDRankin

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Re: Ed Clark's constructive hive design
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2014, 12:26:12 am »
Heya Allen and thanks for the reply.

Yes, from his book - Constructive Beekeeping (I'm not certain the year, bit 1918 sounds right)

And I have no idea how many of his ideas are available commercially today, but judging by the question, I'll guess the answer is not many, if any. Since this is all fairly new to me I'm open to all ideas, concepts and the different philosophies I happen upon. I've listened to all the podcasts on Robo's website and learned a great deal and am most appreciative, but of course I realize that I still have plenty to learn.

I'll be doing many various experiments as time permits, mainly because I'm in a rather hot and typically very humid climate here in south central Texas. I haven't been able to find much information written about beekeeping in this region.
However, I heard Ed Clark's system mentioned in one of the podcasts, and if memory serves me correctly it was in reference to the top cover allowing for *some* ventilation, but more about the hive being a condenser system vs a ventilated system.

That is the part that was interesting to me based on a couple of things ... A. my lack of experience at this point and B. the heat in my area get's really intense in mid summer and we're very close to that time now and I'm in the middle of building hives.

So, I was hoping someone may have actually tried something along these lines and would care to share the results.

I've also considered adding a layer of that pink foam board wall insulation just under my top covers. Even though I have the hives where the do get shade in the middle of the day, it still gets extra warm down here . . . even in the shade on still days.

Any and all thoughts and comments are most appreciated.
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Online BeeMaster2

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Re: Ed Clark's constructive hive design
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2014, 12:33:47 am »
GD,
I put the foil backed insulation in all of my lids now. It really helps.
Jim
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Offline NotactJack

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Re: Ed Clark's constructive hive design
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2014, 12:38:48 am »
I'm about 120 miles south of you. I am interested in what you are saying. Do you have links to the hive designs?  Currently I use Screened Bottom Boards and Screened inner covers. My hives beard all summer long if the population is normal.  Rearing bees in the desert makes for a hearty bee. I don't have problems with Varroa and only see SHB or wax moths in failing hive. I have queens from Bee Strong Honey out of Donna, Tx and R Weavers from Novasota, Tx. Both do well.
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Offline GDRankin

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Re: Ed Clark's constructive hive design
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2014, 02:34:20 am »
Quote
I put the foil backed insulation in all of my lids now. It really helps.
Thanks for the tip Jim, I'll have to give that a try. Do you mean the type like is used in a/c duct work?

Hey neighbor . . . yeah you guys get it even hotter down there in Laredo. Glad to hear you are having success with local (in state) queens. I was told to buy bees locally and queens from out of state. I guess it's all a matter of what works for each person eh?

Quote
Do you have links to the hive designs? 

Not exactly to any designs, but there is a diagram in the book ... here's a link to a pdf that should give you a better idea.
http://www.§¤«£¿æ.com/library/general_beekeeping/beekeeping_books_articles/ConstructiveBeekeeping_EdClarke.pdf]ConstructiveBeekeeping_EdClarke.pdf
http://www.§¤«£¿æ.com/library/general_beekeeping/beekeeping_books_articles/ConstructiveBeekeeping_EdClarke.pdf[/url]

Of course these ideas are nearly 100 years old and I'm not sure what part of the country Clark was doing his work in, but I'm interested in his concepts at any rate.
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Online BeeMaster2

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Re: Ed Clark's constructive hive design
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2014, 01:39:19 pm »
Thanks for the tip Jim, I'll have to give that a try. Do you mean the type like is used in a/c duct work?

No. it is the 4'X8' pink or blue insulation with fiol, used on walls. You can get it in 1/2" or 3/4".
Jim
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Offline GDRankin

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Re: Ed Clark's constructive hive design
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2014, 02:55:49 pm »
Quote
the 4'X8' pink or blue insulation with foil,

Thanks Jim,
I have some of the pink wall board stuff, but it's without the foil backing. I guess it will be just as good.
I was actually considering making some cover-alls out of this pink stuff for the winter months, but figured I'd cross that bridge in a few months.

For now, I have one hive that I was considering doing something with in terms of cooling and/or insulating or maybe going with something like the Clark design top. It's a young hive I purchased as a nuc right at a month ago and it's pretty much ready for expansion.

It was actually a tad more than a nuc ... had about 6 frames of brood, honey and bees in a 10 frame deep. We've had a good month and the queen is laying good. There are only two sides of two frames (outside two) that have not been filled yet, and the population is growing daily.

In fact, there have been lots of bees on the outside the last several days so I added a honey super about 4 days ago. There were still a lot of bees on the outside last night. I'm wondering if I should add a second brood box between the bottom original box and the super . . . or add the second deep and take the honey super off for now?

Such a newbee .... lol
It's fun learning, but it can be a little tricky at times knowing what the best course of action is .... since I got the two nucs I started with from a commercial guy and he's out of the picture now . . . I'm kind of left to figure out things on my own.

I appreciate all the posts I've read here, as well as the podcasts and any input you more experienced guys may offer.
Thanks again,
GD
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Offline Robo

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Re: Ed Clark's constructive hive design
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2014, 10:14:37 pm »
GD,

Although I have not built a Ed Clark design hive,  I am a believer in his principles on ventilation.  I also am a believer in Warre's heat retention.   The norm for beekeepers is ventilate, ventilate, ventilate.  The more the better.   But yet when I observe feral colonies,  they make every effort possible the seal off the nest cavity.  Why?     You always hear cold doesn't kill bees, moisture does.   Well all I can say is cold bees don't raise brood as fast as warm bees in the spring.

I do not provide any ventilation in my hives for winter other than a bottom entrance.   Ed Clark designed his hives so that condensation happened in the overhang of his covers.  I don't doubt the success, but I took a lazier way.  I make sure the highest insulation value is on the top and therefore causing condensation to happen on the walls of the hive, where it just runs down away from the bees, but is still available for them when needed to raise brood.

I also use polystyrene hives to help with the heat retention.  The norm in my area is 2 deeps for the winter.  I use only one and they still have plenty reserve.
I use 2" foil backed insulation board for covers.

Here is one of my hives in February.  As you can see heat retention allows them to raise brood much quicker in the early spring.
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Offline GDRankin

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Re: Ed Clark's constructive hive design
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2014, 03:05:52 am »
Thanks for the input Robo,

It looks like you have come up with a pretty effective method for your area and the climate there. I'm wondering how such a system would fair in the super hot and mostly humid summers and light and typically mild winters in this region. I'd like to know more about how your top covers are made and fitted onto your deeps.

Thanks again,
GD
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Offline Robo

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Re: Ed Clark's constructive hive design
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2014, 12:04:26 pm »
GD,   

 Climate is everything in beekeeping.  Ventilation may be much less of an effect in the south where open air colonies can survive, unlike here in the north.   My covers are as simple as it gets, just 2" foil backed insulation board.  In winter I use a 2" shim out of the insulation board to allow space for feed in needed.  In the summer, insulation board goes right on top hive body.

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison



Offline GDRankin

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Re: Ed Clark's constructive hive design
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2014, 12:25:36 pm »
Ahhh okay,

That makes sense. The photos make it easier to see what you mean. I'm not sure I've ever seen that 2" board before. Maybe it's not something many people use down here this far south, or maybe I just never noticed it before.

I do think something along those lines would help down here with the heat. I have mine hives in a location that gets morning sun, but mid day shade to help keep the extreme heat down. I've heard of honey melting in hives down here, so it's something I'm concerned about for sure.

Thanks again,
GD
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