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Author Topic: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?  (Read 4061 times)

Offline Charles Wright

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How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« on: August 23, 2020, 01:02:24 pm »
I've been told to open feed at least 300 feet from my hives. I'm in a 1/2 acre lot. I'll probably build up to about 8 hives. Am I just going to have to live with hive top feeders or can I open feed at about 75 feet?
Thanks.

Offline .30WCF

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2020, 02:48:06 pm »
I would do hive tops. They are not that bad and open feed might  look like a swarm all the time. Of course I tend to try not to step on my neighbors toes if I think they could have a valid complaint about something I?m doing.


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Offline iddee

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2020, 03:04:42 pm »
I think you could safely open feed on the opposite side of your house from the hives.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Charles Wright

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2020, 03:42:47 pm »
I have a real good long term relationship with all my neighbors, and they seem to be supportive of me getting bees. They all grow flowers and vegetables and their aren't many bees in our neighborhood. I have a good spot about 100 feet from where the hives will be. I just didn't know what the 300 foot rule was based on. I don't think hive robbing will be a problem. Is there anything else I need to consider of course other than bothering the neighbors?

Offline iddee

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2020, 04:37:55 pm »
Neighbors and robbing is it, other than other critters feeding at the trough.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline The15thMember

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2020, 05:37:27 pm »
I don't open feed, but I set out stickies from honey harvesting much closer than 300 ft. and I've never had an issue. 
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2020, 05:40:20 pm »
Mr. Wright, I will be feeding sugar syrup very soon, Sept.  Neighbors are not a concern due to acreage.  I will place syrup within 150 feet of my hives, in an open garden area.  I have not had problems with robbing in the past.  I have about 20 strong hives.  I will most likely reduce the entrance to 4 inches prior to feeding.  This year, 2020 has been the worst year for honey production: cold lingering Spring, summer drought, with Fall in question?  So yep, I have to feed.

Cheers
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Charles Wright

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2020, 08:19:08 pm »
Thank you all. I'm also considering that if robbing isn't an issue I could go ahead and hive feed. Is robbing the only issue to consider with that?

Offline iddee

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2020, 08:53:58 pm »
That, and LEAKING. Did I mention LEAKING?
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline cao

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2020, 12:55:13 am »
Short and to the point.  I like it iddee. :cheesy:

Offline Nock

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2020, 04:24:59 pm »
Are you worried about someone getting stung? 

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2020, 04:57:28 pm »
Mr. Wright.  Hive feeding is ok, as long as you don?t spill and there are no leaks as ID pointed out.  One drop of spilled syrup can cause problems.  Do not add scent such as lemon grass oil.  Do not get syrup on your hive tool or gloves, don?t get syrup anywhere.

Understand, during a dearth, feeding will cause a frenzy.  My bees go nuts with excitement, circulating everywhere within 100 yards of the feeder.  The bees are looking for another feeder.  Thur a bees eye, syrup just appeared out of nowhere so the scouts are frantically searching for more.  After a few hours the scouts will calm down and concentrate on the feeder or feeders.

Open feeding:  the biggest problem I have is bees piling on top of bees causing drowning.  An open container of syrup is a death trap.  I place sticks, shipping foam peanuts, anything to prevent drowning.  Some beeks use straw on top of the syrup.
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Charles Wright

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2020, 08:05:23 pm »
Ok. Thanks everyone.
I'm not real concerned about neighbors getting stung.
It will be spring when I get my first two nucs, so I have some time to make my decision. At this point I'm probably leaning toward hive top feeders.
I'll be checking back to see what other opinions are posted. Thanks to all.

Offline Charles Wright

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2020, 10:20:35 am »
Here's a link to a video for an open feeder that is safe for the bees.
https://youtu.be/YivUoKWTSws

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2020, 03:34:51 pm »
Charles I haven't tried these but this setup looks persuasive to me. I would not be afraid to try it if I was preparing to open feed.  Let me add, I would follow Iddees' advise of placing the feeders on the other side of your home with such a limited amount of space. I have read somewhere that close distance feeding is better at reducing the odds of robbing, if done as Iddee suggested.
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Offline CapnChkn

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2020, 04:54:21 pm »
The reason for the 300 foot rule is the communication dance.  If the food source is within 300 feet, the dance is a circle.  Further, it changes to a figure "8."  The problem is the bees will exhaust the food eventually, and then search around in a 300 foot radius from the hives.  Any other rich food source will be the other hives.

I used to open feed, and I swear I made the first feeders using the finger ring as "trays."  Here's the video I made of it in 2012:

https://youtu.be/GlBYPp6SqIE

The thing is, I was feeding every bee within 8 miles of the thing, assuming they wanted to go that far.  I figured my 10 hives at the time were drinking 9 pounds of sugar a day.

I would put this too close to the hives, and there would be dead bees all over the concrete.  Here in Huntsville, we seem to experience a dry spell at the beginning of August, and I've lost my beeyard once, and lost individual hives several times from robbing.  I've had to get my neighbor to let me put my wet frames out on her property.
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2020, 08:54:58 pm »
The reason for the 300 foot rule is the communication dance.  If the food source is within 300 feet, the dance is a circle.  Further, it changes to a figure "8."  The problem is the bees will exhaust the food eventually, and then search around in a 300 foot radius from the hives.  Any other rich food source will be the other hives.

Ya,I have heard this exact caution about close feeding: so close that a hive is targeted instead of the directed food.  Let me point out, when doing a dance, the dancing bee also offers a taste of a given food source so the foragers know exactly what to look for.  The question of close distance may or may not have merit.  Let me explain what I have witnessed with my own eyes.  I have seen a swarm precision move into a prepared hive only 10 feet from the originating swarm hive also of course close food sources.

Ten feet is so close it?s hard to understand how a dancing bee can convey this short distance when one second of waggle equals 1,000 yards.  I have heard several beeks apply this logic of time of waggle and close food source and the math does not work for 10 feet or 100ft: 0.01 and 0.1 seconds respectively.  However, the bees understand with precision maybe by means that we don?t understand for close sources.  If a waggle dancing bee wiggles its antanae does this mean anything?  Is there a means of conveying short distance in lieu of the waggle??? we do not know, but that does not mean there is not another method for short distance.

I just try not to place food next to a hive, say within 20 ft of a strong hive.  Also consider I am a hobbyist with max 20 hives.  I do not know about feeding with 100 plus hives such as many on this site.

Cheers
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Charles Wright

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2020, 09:45:21 am »
Good video Capn. Thanks. This thread is indicative of why I value my membership here more than my hands on experience with a mentor. I could never learn this much from one person. Thanks everyone.

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2020, 05:25:00 pm »
@CapnChkn - 3 hrs south of you we kind of have that dearth too.   I have hives where there are no ornamental plants, they are hungry in mind summer.

In the area where there is mondo grass (liriope) and Vitex, the bees are ok, and are still bringing something in.  Both plants grow fine in the heat.

Good news is, liriope is really easy to grow and propagates like mad. A large patch will become a field if you let it.  Probably you can get some from a neighbor.  Keep it watered and it booms.  It sends out purple spikes in August and Sept, and the bees have something to do.  A large patch will become a field if you let it.  It's a diffferent kind of open feeding, lol.

The Vitex is great too. Cut it back end of July and you'll get a 2nd bloom.  Let it get dense, do chop it like the crepe murder landscapers.

Offline Nock

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2020, 08:42:16 pm »
Here's a link to a video for an open feeder that is safe for the bees.
https://youtu.be/YivUoKWTSws
This is what I use. Works fine. Only thing you have some leftover. Once it gets so low. I then pour that into a bucket for them to finish. I fill that bucket up with sticks and grass so they don?t drown.

Offline Nock

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2020, 10:51:06 pm »

Offline TheHoneyPump

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How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2020, 11:46:54 pm »
I've been told to open feed at least 300 feet from my hives. I'm in a 1/2 acre lot. I'll probably build up to about 8 hives. Am I just going to have to live with hive top feeders or can I open feed at about 75 feet?
Thanks.
If I may offer some guiding beekeeper principled comments on this.
- never ever, ever, open feed with neighbours. It is just bad etiquette. It is also illegal in many regions.
- you are talking starting with two nucs and maybe build up to 8.  Far far far too few hives to even consider open feeding.  The benefit of open feed comes with higher numbers, to save capital.  Do not consider open feeding unless you have minimum 25+ hives in a spot, AND there are no neighbours nor other hives around.
- invest in hive top feeders or feeder pails.  The HT feeder is superior.  The pail gets the job done.  If you use pails, place an empty box and lid over it to cover it to minimize temperature swings that can over feed (force drip) due to day-night expansion-contraction temperatures.

For your case, please buy HTs and put considerations of open feeding far behind you.

This is not discounting or discouraging the excellent info and advice above about distances etc.   It is just not applicable in your case, because you are not going to do it, alright.
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline .30WCF

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2020, 07:16:31 pm »
Another thought is the need for open feed. You can overcrowd a hive with syrup in no time flat, cause a swarm, and lose bees. If you feed hive top, you can feed the bees that need it.

If a commercial guy with 800 hives needs to open feed cause most of the hives need feed, and some of them get honey bound, so what. If a guy with four hives open feeds and two or three get honey bound and abscond, that sucks.


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Offline JojoBeeBoy

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2020, 07:33:06 pm »
I don't disagree with anyone here. That said, I open feed quite a bit. I just turned off a drip I've had going most of the day. I don't have neighbors to worry about. However, I have noticed one thing and it was confirmed (and better stated) by the bee inspector (in my case Lankford at WoolieBs. Don't set it up line-of-site. I had a feeder within 50-60' of several hives and the only one that ever got the brunt end was the one whose entrance could be seen from the feeder.

This may seem logical and I guess it was stupid on my part, but it worked fine up to 4 hives for several years and never had any robbing (at least noticeable). Once I got past 10 colonies there were too many wild cards and hungry mouths. I had long since moved it but Lankford said, "Make them go over something, or around something." In my case the feeder is still maybe 120' from the yard, but they are going over a chicken lot and a field of tall goldenrod.

Never heard the figure 8 and trolling around the area looking for another source. This is fascinating. Thanks!

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2020, 10:05:55 pm »
>  "Make them go over something, or around something."


That falls in line with what iddee said back in August. 👍🏻

I think you could safely open feed on the opposite side of your house from the hives.
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline JojoBeeBoy

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2020, 08:41:22 am »
>  "Make them go over something, or around something."


That falls in line with what iddee said back in August. 👍🏻

I think you could safely open feed on the opposite side of your house from the hives.

Yep, I remember his comment and thinking that was even a better scenario. A lot of navigation would go into that. Thanks to both of you.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: How do I open feed in a neighborhood lot?
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2022, 07:54:09 am »
Good video Capn. Thanks. This thread is indicative of why I value my membership here more than my hands on experience with a mentor. I could never learn this much from one person. Thanks everyone.

Agreed
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.