Allow bees in and out whilst excluding butterflies?

[Buk]

I have a critter cage around my veg plot to exclude pidgeons and other birds, deer, rabbits etc. but also caterpiller pests like Cabbage Whites and it is effective in that.

However, it also excludes bees which I would like to enable and even encourage. I asking here for advice on how.

Bees seem quite adept at manouvering through gaps and crevices that (I think) would be impassable for butterflies.

I'm thinking of say 4 or 5 100mm lengths of say 10mm ID pipe passing through the netting, mounted at 1m off the ground in the vaccinity of a comfrey patch and an Elder tree that are frequently visited by bees.

Would the bees find this access point and use it?

Is there anything I could do to encourage them?

Is there a better solution to letting bees in and out whilst excluding the dreaded CWB?

Thanks.

[iddee]

Replace the netting and cover the plants with powdered lime. It will keep the pests off and raise the PH of the soil when it rains and washes off. Replace the lime as needed.

[Buk]

Replace the netting and cover the plants with powdered lime. It will keep the pests off and raise the PH of the soil when it rains and washes off. Replace the lime as needed.

Not an option; this is a 5m x 7m critter cage covering the entire plot. (Also, the last thing my soil needs if a higher PH.)

There is also the problem of pidgeons/deer/rabbits getting up early after overnight rain.

[Acebird]

Knowing your location might help

[Buk]

Knowing your location might help

I'm in the UK, but I'm not sure how that affects finding a way to let bees in and out of my critter cage without letting the butterflies in?

[The15thMember]

I have a critter cage around my veg plot to exclude pidgeons and other birds, deer, rabbits etc. but also caterpiller pests like Cabbage Whites and it is effective in that.

However, it also excludes bees which I would like to enable and even encourage. I asking here for advice on how.

Bees seem quite adept at manouvering through gaps and crevices that (I think) would be impassable for butterflies.

I'm thinking of say 4 or 5 100mm lengths of say 10mm ID pipe passing through the netting, mounted at 1m off the ground in the vaccinity of a comfrey patch and an Elder tree that are frequently visited by bees.

Would the bees find this access point and use it?

Is there anything I could do to encourage them?

Is there a better solution to letting bees in and out whilst excluding the dreaded CWB?

Thanks.

Welcome to Beemaster, Buk!    As long as you have flowers in the garden that bees like, if you provide openings for them, they will find a way in, although depending on the style of the covering, they may have trouble finding a way out.  The trouble is that bees navigate using the sun, which means that if they enter the cage through a tube, they won't understand that the only way back out is through the tube, they will just fly straight up and attempt to get through the cage.  If the cage was made of the right sized wire mesh that was small enough to admit bees, but large enough to exclude butterflies, it would probably work.  I'm not sure you could modify your existing cage in this manner, but you could probably build a new one that would work like this, or perhaps buy one.  Honey bees can fit easily through 6mm mesh, and smaller native bees will of course have even less trouble, although this size of mesh would exclude larger bumble bees, who can be very beneficial to a garden, since they can buzz pollinate. 

[Ben Framed]

Hi Buk,
We are glad to have you join us! Iddees' answer would be of great help in 'most cases'. (Thanks for that reply iddee). The reason for the request of location as Acebird suggested is, in many circumstances of beekeeping, many times, location plays an important part of what the answer to a question might be, (location does matter in many circumstances and aspects of beekeeping). Knowing the location from where the question comes, is 'sometimes' a great aid when helping answer those questions with a 'proper' answer suited for that location. (Thanks to you also Acebird for the location suggestion).

I hope The15Members' reply was of service to you. Feel free to ask more questions as your needs may arise on this subject or others which may be related, or any other subject in the future which is in the scope of Beemaster. Also; Feel free to join in any conversation that you would like to contribute with your opinions and commentary. We at Beemaster are happy to help when we can, and happy 'you' have joined the Beemaster 'family', all the way from the UK!

Sincerely,

Phillip

[Buk]

Welcome to Beemaster, Buk!    As long as you have flowers in the garden that bees like, if you provide openings for them, they will find a way in, although depending on the style of the covering, they may have trouble finding a way out.  The trouble is that bees navigate using the sun, which means that if they enter the cage through a tube, they won't understand that the only way back out is through the tube, they will just fly straight up and attempt to get through the cage.  If the cage was made of the right sized wire mesh that was small enough to admit bees, but large enough to exclude butterflies, it would probably work.  I'm not sure you could modify your existing cage in this manner, but you could probably build a new one that would work like this, or perhaps buy one.  Honey bees can fit easily through 6mm mesh, and smaller native bees will of course have even less trouble, although this size of mesh would exclude larger bumble bees, who can be very beneficial to a garden, since they can buzz pollinate.

The cage is 7m long, 5m wide and 2.5m high at the apex of the curved roof; and is made from debris netting; and cost far too much to replace.

However, it might be possible to put a small panel of a more open netting somewhere to allow the bees ingress and egress.

I've read that 6mm square netting is sufficient to exclude butterflies.

If that is big enough to allow bees through I may have a solution to my problem.

[Buk]

Hi Buk,
...
We at Beemaster are happy to help when we can, and happy 'you' have joined the Beemaster 'family', all the way from the UK!

Phillip

Thanks Phillip. I went looking for a beekeeping forum and found many, but this one seemed to be one of the more active, with (as best I could tell given my limited knowledge) members with good experience giving authoratative answers.

[Acebird]

The cage is 7m long, 5m wide and 2.5m high at the apex of the curved roof; and is made from debris netting; and cost far too much to replace.

Can I ask why the cage is necessary?

[The15thMember]

The cage is 7m long, 5m wide and 2.5m high at the apex of the curved roof; and is made from debris netting; and cost far too much to replace.

However, it might be possible to put a small panel of a more open netting somewhere to allow the bees ingress and egress.

I've read that 6mm square netting is sufficient to exclude butterflies.

If that is big enough to allow bees through I may have a solution to my problem.

If you want to try this, I would put the 6mm netting right over the plants you'd like them to have access to and make the panel as large as possible.  The curved roof also may help, since by bumping into it repeatedly, it may inadvertently herd them to the place they are able to exit.     

[NigelP]

The cage is 7m long, 5m wide and 2.5m high at the apex of the curved roof; and is made from debris netting; and cost far too much to replace.

However, it might be possible to put a small panel of a more open netting somewhere to allow the bees ingress and egress.

I've read that 6mm square netting is sufficient to exclude butterflies.

If that is big enough to allow bees through I may have a solution to my problem.

I woukdn't even try to allow bees access. They won't find their way out and will likely die attempting to leave. For example, when bees get into my extraction room....as they do.....they try to leave via the windows, which is not the way they gained access in the first place. I use a bee vac to "rescue" them and release them near to their hives.
However, you could try putting a hive inside the netting if pollination is your aim as they won't escape they will return to hive.

Your other choices are to replace the netting with something bees can fly through but CBW butterflies can't (as youve already said too expensive) ...or treat with insecticides........or go around and hand kill the caterpillers before they do too much damage.

[Ben Framed]

NigelP:
"For example, when bees get into my extraction room....as they do"
"I use a bee vac to "rescue" them and release them near to their hives."

Same here..

Phillip

[The15thMember]

I woukdn't even try to allow bees access. They won't find their way out and will likely die attempting to leave. For example, when bees get into my extraction room....as they do.....they try to leave via the windows, which is not the way they gained access in the first place. I use a bee vac to "rescue" them and release them near to their hives.
However, you could try putting a hive inside the netting if pollination is your aim as they won't escape they will return to hive.

Your other choices are to replace the netting with something bees can fly through but CBW butterflies can't (as youve already said too expensive) ...or treat with insecticides........or go around and hand kill the caterpillers before they do too much damage.

Nigel has a good idea.  Managing a hive that doesn't have access to a lot of forage may be difficult though. 

[Buk]

Can I ask why the cage is necessary?

to exclude pidgeons and other birds, deer, rabbits etc.

[Buk]

I woukdn't even try to allow bees access. They won't find their way out and will likely die attempting to leave.

Oh well. Looks like I'll be tickling my beans with a feather then.

[Buk]

If you want to try this, I would put the 6mm netting right over the plants you'd like them to have access to and make the panel as large as possible.  The curved roof also may help, since by bumping into it repeatedly, it may inadvertently herd them to the place they are able to exit.   

The position will vary year on year due to crop rotation requirements.

I was thinking perhaps 2 panels. One low down near the external attractor plants and another in the roof at the high point in the hope they would find it when looking for a way out.

But I'd rather pollinate manually than risk killing the bees.

I also thought about getting/making one of these solitary bee nesters; hanging in the garden this year and moving it inside the cage over the winter so the new bees emerge inside next spring. With a low level panel to access the outside close to the elder tree and comfrey patch...

[The15thMember]

The position will vary year on year due to crop rotation requirements.

I was thinking perhaps 2 panels. One low down near the external attractor plants and another in the roof at the high point in the hope they would find it when looking for a way out.

But I'd rather pollinate manually than risk killing the bees.

I also thought about getting/making one of these solitary bee nesters; hangling in the garden this year and moving it inside the cage over the winter so the new bees emerge inside next spring. With a low level panel to access the outside close to the elder tree and comfrey patch...

That's probably a better idea.  The native bees are often better pollinators than honeys anyway.  Just be sure that you pay attention and do a little bit of research on what bees are nesting in your tubes.  You wouldn't want to move them into your cage and then not have them like the flowers you have planted in there and starve as a result.  Some native bees are generalists, like honey bees, and won't be picky about forage, but some are specialists and will only visit certain flowers.  The native bees will not be aggressive if you watch them at their nests, so don't be afraid to take a close look at them and try to ID them, just to be sure they are the right species for the job you want them to do.  Also, since they will be trapped in there, you will want to be sure they have safe access to water (a shallow dish with stones so they don't drown is fine) and whatever they need to construct their nests, (i.e. mud if they are mason bees).     

[Acebird]

Can I ask why the cage is necessary?

to exclude pidgeons and other birds, deer, rabbits etc.

Put a hive close to the cage and run a pipe through the netting.  Keep an entrance to the outside so the bees can still forage outside the net.

[Buk]

Put a hive close to the cage and run a pipe through the netting.  Keep an entrance to the outside so the bees can still forage outside the net.

Wouldn't previous discussion mean that any bees going through the pipe to the cage would be unlikely to find their way back, and thus die?

(I also do not have the where-withall to purchase/build a hive; purchase a colony; learn to take care of them.)

Update: I guess a behive with two entrance slots one inside and one outside would work. But still, learning beekeeping in order to avoid tickling bean flowers with a paintbrush is a big commitment of time and dwindling grey matter :)