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Author Topic: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)  (Read 4386 times)

Offline Ben Framed

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How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« on: November 26, 2022, 12:23:40 pm »
We had some mighty good quail hunting here in North Mississippis when I was growing up. The birds have seemed to go the way of the Buffalo 'in my area' these days...

Phillip
« Last Edit: November 26, 2022, 12:36:13 pm by Ben Framed »
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Offline gww

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2022, 02:34:19 pm »
Same here but the wild turkeys are back.
Cheers
gww
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2022, 02:45:38 pm »
Our wild turkeys are back too. (plenty) Never had many when I was kid, (away from the Mississippi River Levee area)... They seem to be everywhere in my area now. I sure miss the birds (quail)....

Phillip
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Offline G3farms

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2022, 09:06:49 pm »
Have not seen quail around here since 1998. Use to have plenty of coveys of them to scare the crap out of us when walking across a field.

the TWRA brought the turkeys back in and have several around. Kind of funny how they move around and have travel routes they use.
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2022, 10:42:29 pm »
We also have lots of turkeys; we see them everywhere.  I'm not a hunter, but looking at the statistics from the NC Wildlife Commission, populations of bobwhite quail are low compared to previous years, but we have enough that there is still a season to hunt them.  At our previous property I heard a male bobwhite calling very close by once.  I whistled back to him and he answered me, although I never saw him.  Even when our populations were higher, we never had an abundance of quail in the mountains, as they are more of a field bird, but we used to have grouse, and their populations are also low, so there is a lot of focus on managing habitat for them.
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Offline cao

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2022, 11:08:28 pm »
Not many quail around here anymore.  Habitat loss is the main culprit.  The cleaning up of fence rows and the constant mowing of roadsides along with the planting of fescue to prevent erosion has left them no place to live. 

And yes there are plenty of turkeys around.  They are a bird that can handle living close to humans.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2022, 09:46:48 am »
I haven't see a pheasant in these parts in 2 decades.  I haven't heard the quail in about a decade.  Lots of wild turkeys.  There used to be a lot of both pheasants and quail with an occasional chukar, grouse or prairie chicken.  There didn't used to be so many turkeys...
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2022, 11:47:51 am »
From my location of North Mississippi over to Concord, Tn. (which is almost due North of Atlanta), up to Evansville, Indiana on the East side of the Mississippi River; and from my location West of the Mississippi River to Missouri on up to Nehawka, NE by your reports, shows the problem is the same. Thanks for your replies thus far.

Phillip
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2022, 02:15:07 pm »
I think a big part is the way they do corn now.  They used to "pick" it with a corn picker.  This left a lot of standing stalks and a quite a few ears on the stalks.  Now the combines leave nothing.  They chew up the stalks and spit out dust.  No ears on the ground.  None on standing stalks.  Also the way they grow corn it's so dense you can't walk through it.  There used to be rows with space between them enough that you could walk.  Now they are just wall to wall corn until harvest and then nothing.  Then there are the chemicals...
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2022, 08:23:15 pm »
I remember about the time coyotes, brown recluse, and fire ants started showing up in my area was about the time quail numbers began to drop. I do not know if there is any reverent influence with coyotes or fire ants. From what I understand both have always been a part of Texas, and the bird numbers there are still adequate. Any one from Texas have anything to add?

Phillip
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Offline gww

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2022, 08:42:05 pm »
Seemed like coyote numbers went up when the money kinda dropped out of trapping.  Maybe starting mid 80s.
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2022, 10:30:26 pm »
That's a good point gww. The coyote numbers exploded here from none in the 70's, to what seemed like everywhere in my area about that time.

Phillip
« Last Edit: December 06, 2022, 10:42:54 pm by Ben Framed »
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Offline Jim134

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2022, 10:52:21 pm »
   In New England there is no more small  Animal farms.  If there is. The fields are not built the same way.. Or have been reconstructed. But do not having hedgerows.  Not nearly enough transition between the forest and the field.  As compared to when I was a kid. Also  harvesting corn is different. Or any other crop even Hay. We will take hay for example. When I was a kid .Farmers cut hayfield 2 times a year. At very slow speeds. Maybe 3 miles an hour. For about the last 20 to 30 years.. Corn and hay is harvested @ about 12 miles an hour. And hayfields are gone through 4 to 5 times in one summer.

    BEE HAPPY  Jim134  😊

« Last Edit: December 08, 2022, 06:03:13 am by Jim 134 »
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2022, 10:52:54 pm »
Quote from: Ben Framed on December 06, 2022, 08:23:15 pm
I remember about the time coyotes, brown recluse, and fire ants started showing up in my area was about the time quail numbers began to drop. I do not know if there is any reverent influence with coyotes or fire ants. From what I understand both have always been a part of Texas, and the bird numbers there are still adequate. Any one from Texas have anything to add?

Phillip
I'm slinging a little off topic here, but just some thoughts I had reading this post.  1) I wasn't aware until now that coyotes aren't native to the eastern US.  I just looked it up and apparently they moved in to fill the ecological void left by the extermination of the eastern red and grey wolves.  2) There are native fire ants that have always been a part of the southeastern US too, but there was an invasive species from South America accidentally introduced in the 1930s.  That's why it seems there are more than there used to be.  3) Brown recluse spiders are also native to the southeastern US, so they've always been a part of your region too.  By the way, everyone always says that you can ID a brown recluse by the fiddle-shape on their back, and that's not true.  Not all brown recluses have the fiddle, and many other species of spider do.  Actually, to definitively ID a brown recluse requires a microscope.  :smile:           
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2022, 11:06:06 pm »
The first we heard of the brown recluse (at my location) was when I was a young boy, it was all over the news in Memphis Tn as well as the news papers. Is wasn't long before we begin seeing them. We did not know them as brown recluse at that time they were called fiddlers because of the indisputable fiddle shape in their back.

For coyotes: Our neighbor moved here from Germany, purchasing 2,000 plus acres. Along with his own land, he made friends with land owners surrounding his property, gaining permission to place white painted fence 'jumps' all around. He was a Fox Hunter and had the grandest time entertaining guest. It seemed during some of gatherings there may be as many as thirty to fifty horse trailers show up on 'hunt day'.  It was a grand event! Complete with the red coats, black helmets, and tall boots etc....

It wasn't long before Coyotes 'mysteriously' showed up on this side of the Mississippi River; The first 'as far as I knew or know'......

Phillip

 
« Last Edit: December 07, 2022, 06:16:32 am by Ben Framed »
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Offline gww

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2022, 11:18:15 pm »
benf...
Quote
It seemed during some of gatherings there may be as many as thirty to fifty horse trailers show up on 'hunt day'. 
Sounds like what beefest will look like this year.  Only it will be tents and rvs.
Cheers
gww
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2022, 11:18:55 pm »
Quote from: gww on December 06, 2022, 11:18:15 pm
benf...
Quote
It seemed during some of gatherings there may be as many as thirty to fifty horse trailers show up on 'hunt day'. 
Sounds like what beefest will look like this year.
Cheers
gww

Wouldn't that be something!!
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2022, 11:40:07 pm »
Quote from: Jim 134 on December 06, 2022, 10:52:21 pm
   In New England there is no more small  Animal farms.  If there is. The fields are not built the same way.. Or have been reconstructed. By not having hedgerows.  Not nearly enough transition between the forest and the field.  As compared to when I was a kid. Also  harvesting corn is different. Or any other crop even Hay. We will take hay for example. When I was a kid .Farmers cut hayfield 2 times a year. At very slow speeds. Maybe 3 miles an hour. For about the last 20 to 30 years.. Corn and hay is harvested @ about 12 miles an hour. And hayfields are gone through 4 to 5 times in one summer.

    BEE HAPPY  Jim134  😊

Farming ways and the lay of the land has surely changed Jim. Not good for birds...  I sure miss 'em'....

Phillip
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14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2022, 11:55:47 pm »
I recall on one particular hunt, where I had a one time experience. A covey got up and I busted one on the first shot and the  second shot sent a bird straight👆up in the air like a helicopter, higher than a tall tree top. It descended the same way, but slow and 'straight' down.

I was so intrigued that I did not notice where the singles might have went. Later when cleaning the bird I found not one pellet in its body. I did examine and found only one pellet to the head. It was apparent this pellet to the brain is what caused the odd behavior of the bird.

Sure made a good breakfast the next morning! 

Phillip




« Last Edit: December 07, 2022, 12:35:50 am by Ben Framed »
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2022, 05:53:04 am »
Quote from: The15thMember on December 06, 2022, 10:52:54 pm
I'm slinging a little off topic here, but just some thoughts I had reading this post.  1) I wasn't aware until now that coyotes aren't native to the eastern US.  I just looked it up and apparently they moved in to fill the ecological void left by the extermination of the eastern red and grey wolves.  2) There are native fire ants that have always been a part of the southeastern US too, but there was an invasive species from South America accidentally introduced in the 1930s.  That's why it seems there are more than there used to be.  3) Brown recluse spiders are also native to the southeastern US, so they've always been a part of your region too.  By the way, everyone always says that you can ID a brown recluse by the fiddle-shape on their back, and that's not true.  Not all brown recluses have the fiddle, and many other species of spider do.  Actually, to definitively ID a brown recluse requires a microscope.  :smile:         

As stated above; The first we heard of the brown recluse (at my location) was when I was a young boy, it was all over the news in Memphis Tn. as well as the news papers. Is wasn't long before we begin seeing them 'or noticing them'. We did not know them as brown recluse at that time, they were called fiddlers because of the 'indisputable' fiddle shape in their back. But according to Gertsch by 1958 the spider was already here. It wasn't until the spider was broadcast on the news, about 1970ish that we began noticing them in my area... By the way, I have never seen a spider with exact same shape as the Brown Recluse that 'did not' have the fiddle shape on its back. I have looked at many through the years up close and never failed to see the fiddle, and never needed a microscope to see it...   :grin:



https://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/urban/spiders/brown_recluse_spider.htm

Distribution Loxosceles reclusa was described by Gertsch and Mulaik (1940) from Texas. At the time of the first revision of the genus Loxosceles in the Americas (Gertsch 1958), the known distribution ranged from Central Texas to southern Kansas, east through middle Missouri to western Tennessee and northern Alabama, and south to southern Mississippi. Gorham (1968) added Illinois, Kentucky, and northern Georgia. Later, he added Nebraska, Iowa, Indiana and Ohio, with scattered introductions in other states, including Florida; his map indicated a record in the vicinity of Tallahassee (Gorham 1970).

Here are many more pictures of the spider which was first know as the fiddler spider to us, thanks to the Memphis News Stations.

 https://www.google.com/search?source=univ&tbm=isch&q=fiddler+spiders+first+discovered+in+mississippi&fir=GxAOyzwsJcINNM%252C-hvsJn3lG7pxYM%252C_%253BiR1Hr3fWXKTkwM%252CMFNyF_sBH6On5M%252C_%253BBQ2-5IWTW2RkHM%252C7nKQsLDlD5PAtM%252C_%253BYORH8mrj0Cyc2M%252CynL1wanOVxrAZM%252C_%253Beb4E_QB2Cud20M%252Cx2UZrooFgIHVTM%252C_%253BQ3ooVZddKPDVgM%252ClQR-vERHUU3_sM%252C_%253BeTPKgvntlBrfRM%252CGRL5li1ygdVNIM%252C_%253BExxM-HCyCjQkYM%252C73sP-cnAcmpaKM%252C_%253BsFrmS-aLnHst4M%252CUJAZLtY-vOciZM%252C_%253BRq6VRs74bKxwvM%252CDoVM0l4cWDBFeM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kR5TjChkNGTw7e5X6c4E-Ew5u3iYg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj73tGlkuf7AhXelGoFHQsvCDUQjJkEegQIKxAC&biw=1152&bih=585&dpr=2.5
« Last Edit: December 07, 2022, 06:54:36 am by Ben Framed »
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2022, 06:56:34 am »
The first I heard of Fire Ants was in an article written by Bruce Brady of Brookhaven Mississippi in a free bi-monthly magazine distributed by the State of Mississippi which featured Outdoor articles of 'mainly' hunting and fishing. Bruce was a 'well know' Author at that time. He was either a regular, or free lance writer for 'Outdoor Life Magazine', which was in the top tear of the most popular Hunting and Fishing magazines in the United States of America at that time. You could find a copy at every barber shop in a time before the internet and youtube. A time when many country boys 'scraped' up 60 cents :grin: in order to afford and get ahold of this prized printed, monthly magazine of outdoor reading and adventure.

Bruce warned of the invasive Fire Ant and what was to be expected in my State. He was right. Just a few years later I found my first, easily identified Fire Ant Hill on the Mississippi/Alabama State line while hunting with my cousins. In fact I found many there. The large ant hills were just as Bruce Brady had described. Not long afterward 'and not before', they were in my area as well, which happened to be about the time these three species was 'recognized' in my location and about the time quail slowly began disappearing. (and not only these three species, their were others as well). :shocked: As Si Robertson might say, "That's a fact Jack" lol  :wink::grin:

Im not suggesting invasive species was the demise of quail in my area but I am stating when these three were recognized in my home location, the quail numbers began dropping as well. 
Coincidental with spiders? I would say most defiantly, the others? I wonder but do not know. I think it may be some of that, as well as changes in farming, land management, and other reasons combined as others have written above.

Phillip
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2022, 07:03:58 am »
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2022, 07:32:16 am »
I do see and hear a lot more coyotes.  Back in 1970 you could get $50 for a prime coyote hide ($384 in 2022 dollars due to inflation).  Now you get about $40 for a prime ($40 in 2022 dollars).  That's about 10 times as much back in 1970.  Back then it was worthwhile to go coyote hunting for profit.  I also see more foxes, owls, hawks, eagles etc.  I'm sure they all eat quail.  Not to mention raccoons, skunks and possums.  I know they both eat chicken eggs and probably are just as fond of quail and pheasant eggs.  The other day I bet I saw 30 raccoons in 40 minutes on my way to work.
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2022, 12:08:29 pm »
Quote from: Ben Framed on December 07, 2022, 05:53:04 am
As stated above; The first we heard of the brown recluse (at my location) was when I was a young boy, it was all over the news in Memphis Tn. as well as the news papers. Is wasn't long before we begin seeing them 'or noticing them'. We did not know them as brown recluse at that time, they were called fiddlers because of the 'indisputable' fiddle shape in their back. But according to Gertsch by 1958 the spider was already here. It wasn't until the spider was broadcast on the news, about 1970ish that we began noticing them in my area... By the way, I have never seen a spider with exact same shape as the Brown Recluse that 'did not' have the fiddle shape on its back. I have looked at many through the years up close and never failed to see the fiddle, and never needed a microscope to see it...   :grin:
You don't need a microscope to see the fiddle, you would need a microscope to identify the spider correctly at the species level.  The fiddle IS a good sign of a recluse, but it's not the only thing to look at.  For example, recluse spiders have 3 pairs of eyes instead of 4, so if you have a spider with 8 eyes, then it's not a real recluse.  Southern crevice spiders, especially the females, look very similar in shape, color, and size to the recluses, and sometimes they have a fiddle behind their eyes too.


I don't doubt at all that you see recluses, I'm sure you do.  I just wanted people to know that identifying one for certain isn't as easy as just looking for any brown spider with a fiddle, because a lot of publications and hearsay make it sound like it is that easy.

https://www.burkemuseum.org/collections-and-research/biology/arachnology-and-entomology/spider-myths/myth-violin-shape-brown

   
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2022, 04:40:52 pm »
Reagan I do not wish to continue disputing you but at the same time I feel it necessary for the sake of clarity to post the following.
Since your last post, I have done a search of The Southern Crevice Spider for my own benefit and education. As followed: "Do Souther Crevice Spiders have a fiddle mark on their back, male or female." I am not disputing that you found your picture marked Souther Crevice Spider but this is what I found.

https://www.insectidentification.org/insect-description.php?identification=Southern-House-Spider
"On first glance, homeowners may think a male Southern House Spider is a Brown Recluse thanks to similar colors and body shape, however, Southern House Spiders do not have the violin-shaped mark on their heads. Their venom is not toxic like the Recluse, but they may bite if they feel trapped, and that bite may cause some pain. The Southern House Spider actually does homeowners a good service by eliminating pest insects like flies, roaches, beetles, and wasps. For those not interested in the assistance, consistent cleaning of corners, baseboards, and window frames with a vacuum will help prevent one from taking up residence."

The article went on to say more.. Indicating the Southern House Spider also know as the Crevice Spider was the same (was my take).

Also from the search: "Do Souther Crevice Spiders have a fiddle mark on their back, male or female."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_house_spider

Though we do have both Southern Crevice Spiders in my area as well as the brown recluse, the two are easily distinguishable for me. I have never seen a charcoal colored female Souther Crevice spider that matched your picture above.. :-)
I have seen the distantly different looking charcoal female Souther Crevice Spider pictured in the first article in 'this' post.

We never had any spiders in my area with a fiddle on its back until the timeline of what we have already discussed. I hope this helps..

In Addition:
Note the charcoal spider you posted not only has the clear marking of the fiddle on its back but it also has; Looking from the side view the half moon pictured distinctive 3 sets of double eyes, or six eyes when the picture is blown up which clearly indicates it is a brown recluse.... and from your source, See the drawing of the brown recluse eyes on the left pictured sketch which absolutely matches the description off the picture of the charcoal spider you posted above.
Thanks for your patience.

Phillip


« Last Edit: December 07, 2022, 04:51:03 pm by Ben Framed »
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2022, 06:13:58 pm »
Oh, I apologize, I have the sexes of the crevice spiders backwards, the brown one is the male, the charcoal the female.  My mistake.  :oops:

I'm fairly sure that the picture I posted does show southern crevice/house spiders though.  There are lots of different eye arrangements in spiders, and the crevice spiders are not part of either Loxosceles or Tegenaria.  This picture shows the eye arrangement of the crevice spider.
https://bugguide.net/node/view/266485

The other major difference between the crevice spider and the recluse is the crevice spider has much longer pedipalps (the leg-like appendages the spider uses to manipulate food to its mouth).  Here is a close up of the recluse for contrast; the pedipalps on the recluse spider are short and curved, and they hold them more off to the side.  The crevice spiders' pedipalps are long and they hold them straighter.   
http://t0.gstatic.com/licensed-image?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9VgVIg68FT0cSC3dmmJkOLcnGW2XoJbf0tQXik8ji8a2_bgOccegMDplsP3WlR0z3S5OQRx2taCP2s2s

Here is another article with pictures of the crevice spiders, some of which would be very easy to confuse with a recluse at a glance.
https://spideridentifications.com/southern-house-spider.html

Again, I'm not saying that it's impossible to identify a brown recluse by eye.  In all likelihood, you would only need a microscope to distinguish the recluse from other members of its genus or members of very similar genera.  I simply want to impress upon people that the famous fiddle is not on its own a foolproof mark of identification.  It's like "leaves of three, let it be" with poison ivy.  It's true, but it needs to be taken as part of the identification process, not the whole.
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2022, 06:27:06 pm »
Your point is well taken Reagan. The picture of the last Crevice Spider in your last link
Quote
https://spideridentifications.com/southern-house-spider.html
is what we often find here in pasteboard boxes from the attic or garage area. Usually several and dead lol. And yes they do look very similar to the brown recluse.. Thank you for your excellent research and making me think! lol  :grin:

Phillip








« Last Edit: December 07, 2022, 08:33:15 pm by Ben Framed »
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2022, 06:32:50 pm »
Quote from: Ben Framed on December 07, 2022, 06:27:06 pm
Your point is well taken Reagan. The picture of the last Crevice Spider in your last link
Quote
https://spideridentifications.com/southern-house-spider.html
is what we often find here in pasteboard boxes from the attic or garage area. Usually several and dead lol. And yes they do look very similar to the brown recluse.. Thanks you for your excellent research and making me think! lol  :grin:

Phillip
That's what I'm here for!  :grin:
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: How is Bird Hunting in your area? (Quail)
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2022, 06:35:36 pm »
 :grin:  :grin:
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2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
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