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Author Topic: Cooling Cabinet  (Read 5493 times)

Online Lesgold

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2022, 03:56:27 pm »
Nigel, should I then continue to stir this honey regularly to break down the crystal size? I wonder if this stirrer will do the job as the honey hardens slightly.

Offline NigelP

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2022, 05:00:22 am »
Yes it need stirring to break the crystal aggregates down. I burnt out a food mixer motor in my early days as soft set is a very viscous mixture. Maybe they have improved the motors in these mixers, but I doubt it.
I'd use a potato masher and keep an eye on the temperature.
Pre my ,machine days you could see it going whiter the more it was worked, assumign you keep the temperature of the mix low.

Online Lesgold

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2022, 06:34:26 am »
Thanks Nigel. I stirred it with the cordless twice today for about 5 minutes and could see the honey getting lighter. Might give it one more go before bed. Still keeping the mix at 10 degrees C.

Cheers

Les

Offline Acebird

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2022, 08:45:40 am »
I burnt out a food mixer motor in my early days as soft set is a very viscous mixture.
For sure.  You need one with gearing so the motor turns at high speed while the auger turns slowly, just like the unit you are using.
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Online Lesgold

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2022, 08:46:08 pm »
I did a similar thing last night. The honey was putting a fair bit of stress on the cordless drill so I went to a low geared electric drill to do the job. I bet a lot of equipment is really put to the test making soft set.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2022, 09:39:45 pm »
I did a similar thing last night. The honey was putting a fair bit of stress on the cordless drill so I went to a low geared electric drill to do the job. I bet a lot of equipment is really put to the test making soft set.

Wombat2 uses a high torque low RPM drill designed for stirring plaster mixes for his large 9 frame home built extractor. I am thinking with a little imagination and work you could build a nice honey creamer with a similar gadget...
Jeremiah 5:21 King James Version 
Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Lesgold

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2022, 06:36:17 am »
I am actually surprised how much force is required to turn the little stirrer that I made. The torque required on Nigel?s machine would be amazing. My high torque drill only rotates at a maximum of  500rpm but i reckon it would not even get Nigel?s paddle to move. I could build a machine to do the job but it would take a bit of work. The reduction gearbox would need to be pretty solid.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2022, 08:52:10 am »
I would say 500 rpm is way too high.  I would say 100-200 would be the range.  For a standard DC motor that would be a 10:1 reduction.
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2022, 11:08:18 am »
I did a similar thing last night. The honey was putting a fair bit of stress on the cordless drill so I went to a low geared electric drill to do the job. I bet a lot of equipment is really put to the test making soft set.

Wombat2 uses a high torque low RPM drill designed for stirring plaster mixes for his large 9 frame home built extractor. I am thinking with a little imagination and work you could build a nice honey creamer with a similar gadget...

Well scrap the above idea of even the low RPM drill designed for stirring plaster, I just checked the proper RPM for cream honey making. Even 100-200 mentioned by Ace is to fast according to Better Bee. 

Lyson 50L Creamer Unheated - Betterbeehttps://www.betterbee.com ? ... ? Creamed Honey
Maximum speed: 36 RPM. 230V power.
$1,665.95 ? ‎In stock
Jeremiah 5:21 King James Version 
Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline NigelP

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2022, 11:35:45 am »
That sounds about right Ben, just timed mine at 1RPM every 2 seconds, so near enough to 36RPM as manufacturers claim.
I know the Lyson creaming machines are expensive. I worked out how much honey I would need to sell to buy one. At the time it was around 300 jars of honey at ?5/jar, now about 500 jars  :cry:


Online Lesgold

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2022, 04:47:52 pm »
Hi Acebird. I am not using the drill at 500rpm. Should have mentioned that it was variable speed. I?m only running it at about 200 rpm at a guess. Running it too quickly introduces air so I had to find a speed that worked well for my stirrer. Its actually good to know the speed of Nigel?s machine. I did some rough sums to figure out how far the outer edge of the paddle would travel in a minute and then compared it to my small stirrer. The results were very similar. It looks as though Nigel?s machine may actually be running just slightly faster than my stirrer (by about 5%) so I?m happy with that.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2022, 09:16:18 am »
I did some rough sums to figure out how far the outer edge of the paddle would travel in a minute and then compared it to my small stirrer.
Yes, diameter of the auger makes a difference.  That is why that type of stir is not efficient.  The inner part of the blade is useless for breaking down the crystals.
Thinking about the small beekeeper creaming honey for his / her own use I look back at the counter mixer I mentioned before.  Most have power take offs in the head for attachments like meat grinding.  This is geared so turning at a slow speed.  The auger in a meat grinder runs close to the outside housing.  I am wondering if this closeness is enough to break down the crystals.  I don't think you could use the knives and extrusion plates but it might be worth a try if you are into tinkering.  Maybe get an old fashion hand crank one for testing.
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Offline NigelP

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2022, 01:08:46 pm »
Before I got automated I used a large custom designed "potato masher" to work the setting hiney. It worked well but was quite labour intensive if you make a lot of soft set. But for someone wanting say a bucketful, is an ideal cheap method. The shear forces as the crystals are forced through the holes in the masher breaks them down into smaller crystals.This is the one sold by a UK beekeeping company (Thornes). They will ship abroad.


Online Lesgold

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2022, 03:47:59 pm »
Good point Acebird. I have mixed my soft set a few times each day and do notice a colour change but there is no way that I will end up with anything like the white looking honey that Nigel is getting. Nigel, that masher may be the way to go for me as I would only ever do small quantities at a time. I will post a picture to show what I have ended up with. The honey is smooth on the tongue but from what you have said before,  the crystals must be much larger than yours due to the colour.

Online Lesgold

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2022, 10:12:46 pm »
Here is a pic of the honey just after stirring. I tried going a bit quicker this morning to see how it would go but as you can see, I introduced a bit of air. May give it one more slow speed stir in a few hours and then pop it into jars.


Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2022, 10:36:09 am »
Les you look to be handy at fabricating and welding stainless steel. I am posting a picture of a plaster stirrer. Its should work on the same principle as a honey creamer. I do not know the materials it is made from. Notice the angle to the outside of the blade It will be wider than what you have already made but maybe not wide enough? Wont know until knowing the measurements.  If not I am suggesting custom fabricate something similar wile taking anther look at the Picture Nigel posted of the inside of his store bought creamer, coming up with a design tall enough and wide enough that will reach your outer edges? 

Phillip

Jeremiah 5:21 King James Version 
Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Lesgold

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2022, 04:23:42 pm »
Thanks for that Phillip. If you look closely at the off set blades, they actually use the same principle as my stirrer. Being a larger diameter, they should be an improvement on what I have. When mixing plaster, you don?t want air in the mix so this may work well.  I was actually looking at Nigel?s manual potato masher style of stirrer. I reckon I could make that one or the one you just showed me quite easily. I want to see how this sample batch of creamed honey turns out before continuing any further. Although not in the same league as Nigel?s honey, I am reasonably happy with what I was able to produce using my limited resources. I will place the honey into jars today and store it at 10 degrees C and see how large the crystals grow. The colour and texture is far superior to what the most common commercial creamed honey manufacturer sells. If my honey ends up close to that in a few weeks, that would be a good starting point.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2022, 04:35:24 pm »
Thanks for that Phillip. If you look closely at the off set blades, they actually use the same principle as my stirrer. Being a larger diameter, they should be an improvement on what I have. When mixing plaster, you don?t want air in the mix so this may work well.  I was actually looking at Nigel?s manual potato masher style of stirrer. I reckon I could make that one or the one you just showed me quite easily. I want to see how this sample batch of creamed honey turns out before continuing any further. Although not in the same league as Nigel?s honey, I am reasonably happy with what I was able to produce using my limited resources. I will place the honey into jars today and store it at 10 degrees C and see how large the crystals grow. The colour and texture is far superior to what the most common commercial creamed honey manufacturer sells. If my honey ends up close to that in a few weeks, that would be a good starting point.

Nigels' look premium for sure! I bet with your enthusiasm, you will achieve that quality of creamed honey as well, once you get everything together.

Phillip
« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 05:32:50 pm by Ben Framed »
Jeremiah 5:21 King James Version 
Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline NigelP

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2022, 04:20:59 am »
IN many respects the colour is immaterial, as long as your soft set is smooth on the tongue.
IIRC using the masher I never managed a white soft set like the machine produced stuff, but it was perfectly presentable and sold well.

Online Lesgold

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Re: Cooling Cabinet
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2022, 06:30:27 am »
Good to know Nigel. Thank you for your input. I have picked up some invaluable material from your comments.

 

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