Winter beekeeping...

[Finski]

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Very funny. I should write to end of April.

But never mind Beek. Now you have fun rest of your life!

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[edward]

You are missing that FINLAND is one small land in the world, there are many other countries with many different types of climates and types of winter.
Winter in northern regions+ mountains are harsher but even the low lands and southern countries have winters, they just are not as harsh and extreme as in FINLAND, BUT IT IS STILL WINTER for them.

mvh edward  :-P

[rdy-b]

I guess there will be those that rob their hives of all their honey, feed sugar syrup, and add candy boards in the fall.  I think bees do better on their own honey.  So I will only use those things when needed.

I have robbed all my honey 50 years and I have feeded them full sugar. Nothing wrong in that.
Bees DO NOT do better with honey wintering.

Our hives live with sugar from September to end od August. It is 8 months. What they need too during that time is pollen. Honey has only energy and pollen has other nutritients. But they do not gather pollen from nature during 8 months.

My goal is to produce honey and sell it.  Winted food cost is 20 euros and the price of 20 kg honey is 150 euros.

 Do you have any good recipe for making sugar watter-- :lol:   :rainbowflower:

[Bush_84]

The biggest issue I have with finski's posts is that I have a hard time telling what is his right way of doing things.  I know that there is displeasure in his posts, but I can't tell how he would rather do it.  I think that a frame feeder full of sugar is brilliant!  Anybody who keeps bees in such a climate must know something about bees.  So I will try to gather what I can from him, but at the same time the manner in which he communicates is hard to deal with. 

[Finski]

 Do you have any good recipe for making sugar watter-- :lol:   :rainbowflower:

If you find some

Americas Crazy Obesity Problem (Feb 2012)

[rdy-b]

 frame feeder not so good when bees are in cluster--thats why they use them after cleansing flight
bees take feed from overhead and outer edge of cluster -when they are in tight cluster they dont move- so location of
 feed is key to sucsses-the topic of winter beekeeping has degraded to* how to get the sugar in the hive*
 I thought we would be hearing about unmatched  (or lack of ) wisdom for electric light bulb-or how many
 beekeepers it takes to screw one in--- ;)  RDY-B

[Finski]

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Okay randy. Here you get more seed of succes

http://apiculture.ncf.ca/Wintering.htm

[rdy-b]

 I goggled George brezina --not alot of support for that source-but I
 will honor his opinion if you are recommending it--- 8-) RDY-B

[T Beek]

The biggest issue I have with finski's posts is that I have a hard time telling what is his right way of doing things.  I know that there is displeasure in his posts, but I can't tell how he would rather do it.  I think that a frame feeder full of sugar is brilliant!  Anybody who keeps bees in such a climate must know something about bees.  So I will try to gather what I can from him, but at the same time the manner in which he communicates is hard to deal with.  

Bush_84; Your climate is every bit as harsh as Finski's, perhaps worse even.  I know your region well.

Everyone who takes this road keeps bees for different (their own )reasons.  

Finski has admitted many times (many, many times :roll:) that his main mission is to exploit as much honey as possible while supplementing his bees with sugar for up to 8 months each year.......... :( yet he condemns those (American) Beeks who basically do the same thing, although my bees get a fraction of the sugar Finski feeds his bees (He has NEVER gotten that part of the debate) and get plenty of honey.  

Can 'you' explain this contradiction?  Can I?  Can the mods?  Have they tried?  Hm mm,  Can Finski?  

Historically and based on the archives, it seems improbable my friend.

Obviously, Not everyone is going to agree with Finski's methods, especially whether they provide some benefit to, or for bees or beekeeping.  Personally, I think his methods are abhorrent and absurd in many ways, yet he's treated like some kind of BK Prince around here......so it goes w/ idol worshiping human beings who can't help themselves (I'll likely be threatend w/ banishment w/ this comment.....XIN LOI>>>>>)  

Good luck w/ your bees.

[Bush_84]

Here is an idea....maybe we should alter the direction of this thread.  We have wandered from the op anyways.  Since we are talking wintering maybe we should discuss insulating/heating hives.  It's a topic that's been on my mind. 

I insulate and wrap my hives.  What does everybody here do?  If you insulate your hives, what do you insulate with?  As of now I am using that hard board insulation stuff, but I was wondering if anybody uses the fiberglass stuff that you get in rolls?  You would have to almost cover that fiberglass stuff with something before you put it on.  Maybe garbage bags?  It just seems like it would be cheaper and easier to transport. 

Do you insulate singles or cluster them?

Anybody use heat tape?  Would it work if I embedded it into some hard insulation or would that melt it or be a fire hazard? 

Broad topic I know but I thought a nice topic change would be great.

[dfizer]

Hello all -

I originally started this thread in an attempt to firugre out two main things.  When in "emergency" feeding necessary, and what to do when it is deemed necessary.  This thread has turned into a stinger size contest and to that I'm disappointed.  So, I have some information about my situation that I'd appreciate some advice on...  The temp got to 39F/4C today so I decided to look under the inner cover.  Low and behold - lots and lots of bees in a ball/cluster.  I know I was instructed to look for honey but to be honest I didn't feel comfortable disturbing the cluster any more than I already did.  Therefore, I dont know the quantity of honey status.

Now my question's are these:
1) Is it ok/normal for the cluster to be so far up - the bees I saw were above the frames of the top deep and beneath the inner cover.  It was like they were stuck to the bottom of the inner cover so when I lifted it up it the bees formed like a bridge.
2) What can I assume?  Can I assume they have some honey and are ok or can I assume they are running out therefore emergency action is required?  Or should I not assume anything and lift the inner cover up and look harder for evidence of honey?  
3) At this point what should I do?  

In summary - I have to say that I couldn't be more excited in that all three hives have a large quantity of bee's present.  We have mild temps forecasted for this week so should I need to do something this week may be one that I could do it in.

Thanks and should you have any constructive advice specifically related to this topic please feel free to contribute otherwise please start your own thread where you can argue and go back and forth all you want.  Furthermore, should you want to start a thread about insulating or heating hives you can start your own thread.  Thank you in advance for respecting this request.

[rdy-b]

 theres a old time tested method of using two fingers to lean the hive backwards
 if you can lift the hive by the hand hold with two fingers its to light and needs feed--thats where i start
 from -then take into account all the variables and decide what to do-is there any whieght to your hive--RDY-B

[T Beek]

If its 39F and your bees are hanging from the bottom of your inner cover they are likely running out or are already out of stores.  39F allows them to move about w/in the hive pretty much at will, so if they're all up top they're looking for energy in the form of sugar.  

Don't hesitate, give them some dry sugar OR some of BlueBees Honeyballs if you have some honey to mix w/ sugar.  

Your bees made it this far, why take a chance on letting them starve?  If they don't need it so what.  You can always use it as syrup when temps get warm.

Personally I'm still on the fence as it relates to 'artificially' heating hives.  After many years I 'insulated' my hives for the FIRST TIME this winter and am greatly concerned about the frost (excessive condensation?) appearing at the entrances.  I now feel that the wood alone, even wrapped in tar paper at least allowed moisture to escape.  The rigid foam shells over my hives right now, do not.  A dilemma for sure, and one based on our particular region and climate IMO.

[dfizer]

Thanks for the information - I have two layers of sheet insulation on top of the inner cover with a hole the same size as the inner cover - so where should I put this feed?  I was thinking about putting the sheet of moistened paper and sugar under the inner cover on top of the frames.  The drawback of this is that removing it will difficult at best.  I like idea of honey balls... I'll make more of a honey patty but the concept will be the same.  I'll put it on top of the frames near the cluster.  I remain hopeful that the bees make it through the winter as since we've made it this far I'd hate for them to die now.

Thanks and if you think of anything else I should consider doing to help insure they make it through the winter it would be greatly appreciated. 

Best regards

David

[sterling]

Thanks for the information - I have two layers of sheet insulation on top of the inner cover with a hole the same size as the inner cover - so where should I put this feed?  I was thinking about putting the sheet of moistened paper and sugar under the inner cover on top of the frames.  The drawback of this is that removing it will difficult at best.  I like idea of honey balls... I'll make more of a honey patty but the concept will be the same.  I'll put it on top of the frames near the cluster.  I remain hopeful that the bees make it through the winter as since we've made it this far I'd hate for them to die now.

Thanks and if you think of anything else I should consider doing to help insure they make it through the winter it would be greatly appreciated. 

Best regards

David

It sounds like they may be low on stores. But I have seen the cluster near the top in hives I put insulation on the inner cover. If it were me I would put some feed on the frames right over the cluster. If your inner cover has a side that is depressed turn it over if not make some kind of spacer so you will have a little bit of room to put the feed. This can be done with very little disturbance and it is kinda like insurance. As far as the type of feed goes. The feeds that have been mentioned will all work. But I like fondant best but have not tried the honey balls.

[Bush_84]

Here is what I have done as I am in a similar situation.  Make an eke.  Make it just a couple of inches high.  You just want something that will gives you space to add the sugar.  Put the eke down.  Put the newspaper down and add sugar.  Make sure that they still have access to the upper entrance.  Put the inner cover back on with the insulation over that.  Then put the roof back on.  Good to go! 

[derekm]

Frost its just condensation in a freezing atmosphere .. all that means is the inside of the hive is above the dew point and the outside is freezing. The moisture has escaped into the cold and the insulation is doing its job... I get a plume of frost above the entrances to my hives.  Previously you would have been  causing frost inside hive . Nothing to worry about.

[T Beek]

Frost its just condensation in a freezing atmosphere .. all that means is the inside of the hive is above the dew point and the outside is freezing. The moisture has escaped into the cold and the insulation is doing its job... I get a plume of frost above the entrances to my hives.  Previously you would have been  causing frost inside hive . Nothing to worry about.

Never had frost or condensation issues before I placed foam shells around my hives.  I now believe moisture is not escaping as it did when I just used wood, wrapped w/ tar paper.

Adding sugar is simple "IF" you have an extra "empty" super.  Just place the empty over the inner cover and fill w/ as much sugar as you think they will consume before the Dandelions begin blooming.  Don't forget to cover the hole w/ damp paper.  Cover w/ telescoping top and you're done.  If your bees need it they will find it and eat it.  No invasion into the colony is necessary.

[dfizer]

I suspect that the reason for the bees being clustered up at the top of the two deep hive is due to me not covering the screened bottom board and adding all the insulation above the inner cover.  It has to be warmest up there.  I chose to leave the sbb open on the suggestion of local bee keepers, although it was counter intuitive to me.  As a kid I was always yelled at for leaving the door open in the winter and leaving the sbb open was synonymous to this for me.  The warmest spot in the hive has to be up top therefore I assume they have made their way up to the top to stay warm. 

I made some honey balls (very simple I might add) then flattened them to a patty then simply lifted up the inner cover and set them in directly on top of the frames.  I put these as close to the cluster as I could without disturbing the cluster.  The only thing I question is the clearance for the bees to get to the top of the honey patty.  There is little if any room between the top of the honey patty and the inner cover.  I guess that I'm not too concerned as the bees can access the patty from all sides. 

The weather her is 37F/21F or 3C/-6C and about a 10mph wind today.  The weather is supposed to be very similar for the next 4 days minus the wind then take a turn for the colder.  On Saturday it's supposed to be 23F/7F or -5C/-14C so my hopes are to check the honey patty's on Thursday weather permitting and make more if needed. 

I couldn't lift any of the hives from the back with 2 fingers so they are pretty heavy still.  Hell, at this point, it could be that I'm simply worrying too much it's just that I desperately want the bees to make it through this winter.

I really liked the idea of the honey balls squashed into patties...

Thanks again.

David

[derekm]

...  I now believe moisture is not escaping as it did when I just used wood, wrapped w/ tar paper.
....

 I now believe heat is not escaping as it did when you just used wood, wrapped w/ tar paper.