Below ground Locating

[BoBn]

I have been using 2 pieces of brass rod to locate underground pipes and wires. 

I first tried it about 10 years ago with a couple of coat hangers when I was looking for the septic tank for my old farm house.  I was able to find the tank and clay pipes on my 1st try.  Then I started walking back and forth across my back yard and found some old abandoned wooden pipes, underground wire, and my polypipe waterline from my well. 

Over the years I have used this technique to find mower parts that had vibrated off while mowing my fields, tools that were lost, and have found many pieces of junk.  I have also found jewelry and coins.   

At work, I use ferro-magnetic locators, ground-penetrating radar and radio location equipment, but I also use a pair of rods.

I don't know why a couple of bent rods work. My theory is that somehow I am locating slight disruptions in the earth's magnetic field.

There is a fancy low-tec commercially available device that works somewhat like my brass rods, but I doubt if it works any better.
http://www.farwestcorrosion.com/fwst/instrum/magnetomatic.htm 

[Sparky]

You truly are one of the gifted ones. That is the way my parents had their well located when I was a kid, to drill for water and I thought the man was a crackpot when he told them where to drill and how far and how much water they could get. He was very close on all. Many of us have tried it with none that could get the rods to respond.

[BoBn]

he told them where to drill and how far and how much water they could get. He was very close on all.

I don't have any accurate idea of what I find.  For me, a large thing is deeply buried is similar in "signal strength" to a small thing that is closer to the surface.

When I locate, I don't focus on anything in particular.  I just walk along.  I had my kids try it, and it works for them too. 

I think that it is something that can be learned.  Like training the sense of smell:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/59335.php

[ayyon2157]

hello BoBn:

     Very closely related is the act of holding a piece of thread to which a needle is attached and asking it questions.  Tell it how you want it to respond (such as transcribing a circle or swinging back and forth for either "yes" or "no")

    There are apparently "rules" as to what it will answer accurately and what it won't.  I can get lottery numbers all night long, but no winners.

     Some people claim success in "dowsing" over a map, or using an "ouija" board.

ayyon2157

[Brian D. Bray]

Dowsing can be done a number of ways:
1. Using a forked stick.
2. Using a straight stick.
3. Using metal rods:
    a. One each of two different metals
    b. Two of 1 kind of metal
    c.  One single iron rod
    d.  One single copper rod
4. Using 2 crossed sticks or rods.

For me using a long iron rod, like a digging bar, works best.  If I walk slowly with the bar balanced in my hand it will always pull point down and out of my hand as it passes over either buried pipes or water.  If you dig where the point hits the ground you'll find the pipe or water source (which is often the same).

[Humanbeeing]

I believe it is a electro magnetic disruption of some sort. I also use two rods. Mine are brazing rods without flux, bent to a 90 degree angle. When I cross over anything buried, I get a slight electric tingle in my hands, from the rods, and they turn inward.
Have you heard of people that find buried gold and silver using infrared photography? They claim the buried metels create an anomoly from the magnetic reactions with the sun. They say the more activity on the sun, the easier it is to detect.

[VolunteerK9]

My dad can 'water witch' too. Its amazing to watch. He uses a forked branch and you can see the bark twist off the wood as it turns down.

[AllenF]

I use to find water lines with 2 pieces of #4 bare copper wire, but we don't do to much digging anymore with the construction bust.   The last couple of times, I just grabbed 2 of the plastic locater flags that they mark the underground utilities with.   Just pull the plastic flag off and bent the wire.   Bingo.  People think you are crazy using them, but they work.   

[AllenF]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divining_rod

[Troutdog]

New to the forum but didn't see any further discussion on dowsing and thought I'd add a thing or two that can bring the relevance dowsing to beekeeping.
While most folks recognize the fact it works for water witching there is a whole lot of other energy fields we can measure with dowsing. One of these is in fact of huge importance to the bees and their stewards. There are energy lines that circulate electromagnetic force on t he earth and north of the equator they move from south to north and west to east. These are called Hartmann lines. They vary slightly based on latitude but are essentially 3 meters wide. The closer tot h e equator the wider and to the pole smaller.
Wherein these lines are easily detected using rods or whatever you chose here's the interesting thing I found.
Ever wonder why in a strip of hives one is doing really really well with many supers on top and others are not even close. Well me too! After a small sampling of 20 or so apiaries I noticed a trend of major production occurring when the hives were on at lease one of the lines and even more so when a hive was located on both a north and east line.  Further within my own apiary I have moved less productive hives to a grid point and have been quite satisfied with the rebound and increase both in health and output. Now I make no claims that this is the end all solution but I will say there is a phenomena occurring here that is worthy of quite a bit more research. I am curious for those of you that dowse or have a friend that dowses if you would let me know if you are observing the same in your continent and location. For the skeptics dowsing does indeed work and is an ancient art. Unfortunately there are quite a few flakes out there with notions that are not based in any science or deeper understanding of electromagnetic fields and earth science. Probably best to just learn to do it yourself and see what you see. It is a birthright as opposed to some hocus locus skill.  The key is To just stay relaxed and focused on what you are looking for "........in this case just focus on Hartmann energy lines. Find them and start to make a grid and see for yourself.

Thanks to all the great posters here and for the forum moderators.

[beee farmer]

I used the double wire method all my life to find buried plumbing, telco and electric lines. I'd say overall I have averaged 80% hit rate.  Thought about it a lot and think that the subconscious is able to detect indications of previous ditching or plowing of the soils that the conscious is unable to see, thereby crossing the rods subconsciously.  Just a theory!  "I wanna Believe"

[jayj200]

hello BoBn:

     Very closely related is the act of holding a piece of thread to which a needle is attached and asking it questions.  Tell it how you want it to respond (such as transcribing a circle or swinging back and forth for either "yes" or "no")

    There are apparently "rules" as to what it will answer accurately and what it won't.  I can get lottery numbers all night long, but no winners.

   

use the numbers it does not chose

[Lenabee]

wow, very interesting topic

[BeeMaster2]

Lenabee,
During BeeFest 2019, Troutdog (Tom) did a class on dousing. It was extremely interesting. I use it to locate hive stands. I have also used it to find my lost iPhone when I had no idea and found it in the middle of my then 42 acre ranch. It worked. Without it I didn?t have a chance of finding it were we did in the middle of a brushy field.
Jim Altmiller

[Ben Framed]

Lenabee,
During BeeFest 2019, Troutdog (Tom) did a class on dousing. It was extremely interesting. I use it to locate hive stands. I have also used it to find my lost iPhone when I had no idea and found it in the middle of my then 42 acre ranch. It worked. Without it I didn?t have a chance of finding it were we did in the middle of a brushy field.
Jim Altmiller

OK Jim, the cell phone find finally sold me......   Thanks. 

[Occam]

I witch lines quite frequently in plumbing. Sure, we have line locators and advanced technology but it mostly doesn't work on pipes and can be cost prohibitive. I'd be lying if I said I got it 💯 every time but it works more than it doesn't for me. Fascinating topic and practice, and intriguing idea of Troutdogs with the Hartman lines

[NigelP]

In the UK they douse for Ley lines and hives sited on these supposedly do better than those not sited on them.
The problem I have is a mate who is a big a believer of this and has told me that non of my hives are on ley lines yet they produce 4x as much honey as his that are situated on them.
I simply believe siting strong hives near good forage and bit of decent foraging weather is the more simple solution.

[Michael Bush]

>The problem I have is a mate who is a big a believer of this and has told me that non of my hives are on ley lines yet they produce 4x as much honey as his that are situated on them.

:)

[animal]

Dunno ... I think that most belief in dowsing is due to a combination of confirmation bias and luck. However, there do seem to be some cases where a particular person seems to have almost uncanny success with the method. From personal experience, I would lean toward the rods (or whatever else is used) acting as a crutch to access the subconscious.
Humans just can't be still. As steady as we think we are, we are constantly moving. Anyone that successfully shoots knows the effect of breathing. Do some long distance shooting with a scope and you can see the effect of the heart. Beyond that, there are micro-tremors caused by minute muscle contractions, of which we are almost entirely unaware. The dowsing rods are constructed so that they are extremely sensitive to movement or tilt. Thus, it would be very easy to cause movement in them without being aware of doing it.
If the unconscious movements of your body are being directed by the subconscious, the rods would seem to move on their own. If the subconscious is using information from prior experience, it could account for accuracy. The fun thing is ... you may be unaware of the information the subconscious is using ... since you may not have consciously noticed it when you received it.
There are no scientifically controlled studies that I know of that have ever shown dowsing to be effective. There have been a few studies that point to the stuff i described above as being how a ouija board works (when people aren't just shoving it around) ... no spirits or magic needed.
My personal experience" is through self hypnosis/relaxation techniques and visualization and I have found pipes and cell phones through it. (and why this thread got my attention). Finding the last cell phone was by remembering my foot hitting something while crawling through attic insulation. The last pipe was a septic line.. after sitting in the middle of the yard and going through my little routine, I opened my eyes and suddenly saw differences in the grass that I hadn't been able to see before... first jab with the probe and bingo!
But... everything I have said may be a result of my own confirmation bias. Science is a process to find truth, not a system of beliefs.

[NigelP]

One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge Randi Prize
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge

As no-one has ever proved they had paranormal ability and over 1000 people have tried....and it including dowsing.... the challenge has been dropped.