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Author Topic: How much space  (Read 8175 times)

Offline biggraham610

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Re: How much space
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2014, 10:00:08 am »
>Mr Bush I am referring to the bottom of the frame to the top of the bottom board.

That's what you said the first time, and it's still ambiguous.  The top of the frame around the bottom board?  The bottom of the hive (the floor)?  I'll just go from top to bottom.  Cover's vary, but the frames set on a frame rabbet that is 5/8" deep.  The frames are 3/8" deep on the ends which leaves 1/4" space between the top of the frames and the top of the box.  This leaves the bottom bar 1/8" up from the bottom of the box.  If you use a reversible bottom board with the skinny side up you will have between 3/8" and 1/2" (varies by manufacturer) from the floor to the bottom edge of the box which is between 1/2" and 5/8" from the floor to the bottom bars.  If you flip it over, you have a 3/4" rail and you get 7/8" from the floor to the bottom bar of the frames or 3/4" to the bottom edge of the bottom box.

Michael, do you see any problems with using the 3/4" rail as a rule? I have all my hives set up that way and am planning on building a bunch of bottoms that are based on 3/4" only. It makes it much easier for me as far as reducing entrances so forth and so on. There is always scraps of 3/4" laying around. Just wondering the pros and cons. Thanks. G
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: How much space
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2014, 12:49:33 pm »
>Michael, do you see any problems with using the 3/4" rail as a rule? I have all my hives set up that way and am planning on building a bunch of bottoms that are based on 3/4" only. It makes it much easier for me as far as reducing entrances so forth and so on. There is always scraps of 3/4" laying around. Just wondering the pros and cons.

All of mine are 3/4".  It lets the mice in more easily, (if you have a bottom entrance, which I don't) but 3/8" won't stop them unless you make some kind of baffle and that works better in a 3/4" opening.  The one that is popular around here is a 4" x 14 3/4" (for a ten frame) x 3/8" plywood piece with three 4" long 3/8" thick laths nailed at each end and in the middle.  This is slid in the opening to reduce it to 3/8" tall.  The mice don't seem to want to crawl the whole 4" at 3/8" tall.  My bottom entrances are all closed off completely.  Dave Eyre points out that the wax moths seem to sneak in more easily with the 3/4" opening.
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Offline biggraham610

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Re: How much space
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2014, 04:43:50 pm »
>Michael, do you see any problems with using the 3/4" rail as a rule? I have all my hives set up that way and am planning on building a bunch of bottoms that are based on 3/4" only. It makes it much easier for me as far as reducing entrances so forth and so on. There is always scraps of 3/4" laying around. Just wondering the pros and cons.

All of mine are 3/4".  It lets the mice in more easily, (if you have a bottom entrance, which I don't) but 3/8" won't stop them unless you make some kind of baffle and that works better in a 3/4" opening.  The one that is popular around here is a 4" x 14 3/4" (for a ten frame) x 3/8" plywood piece with three 4" long 3/8" thick laths nailed at each end and in the middle.  This is slid in the opening to reduce it to 3/8" tall.  The mice don't seem to want to crawl the whole 4" at 3/8" tall.  My bottom entrances are all closed off completely.  Dave Eyre points out that the wax moths seem to sneak in more easily with the 3/4" opening.


Makes sense. Thanks. G  :chop:
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Offline BlueBee

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Re: How much space
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2014, 08:03:22 pm »
All of mine are 3/4".  It lets the mice in more easily, (if you have a bottom entrance, which I don't) but 3/8" won't stop them unless you make some kind of baffle and that works better in a 3/4" opening.  ......  The mice don't seem to want to crawl the whole 4" at 3/8" tall.  My bottom entrances are all closed off completely.  Dave Eyre points out that the wax moths seem to sneak in more easily with the 3/4" opening.

All of my entrances are 9mm high (3/8") and I find it hard to believe a mouse could really squeeze through a 9mm gap.  I've never seen it, but I'll admit my entrances are more like a tunnel as Michael describes.  Mine are 9mm tall by about 70mm deep (2.5").  No way a mouse is going to squeeze though that narrow of a gap for 2.5"!  I agree about the wax moths.  With an entrance that is just 9mm high, the guard bees just line up in a long row and there aren't any gaps above them for a wax moth to squeeze by.  If you've ever watched those dang moths, you know they look for the gap above the bees to go scooting into a hive.  

Offline Vance

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Re: How much space
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2021, 06:26:39 pm »
I'm a beekeeper who moved to New Zealand about 5 years ago from Hawaii.

In the USA I always used 3/4" (larger) bottom boards.

Here in NZ everyone uses 3/8" (about 12mm).

I've noticed here with the smaller 3/8" bottom boards bees will usually not complete the bottom edges of the frames with comb. They leave a gap between the frame's bottom bar and the rest of the wax comb. This never happened as much when I was using a 3/4" bottom board.

It is actually quite rare here to see a brood frame with the wax completed down to the frame's bottom bar. And If I move a frame down to the bottom position most of the time they will chew away a gap between the comb and the frames bottom bar.

I have read that bees in the wild typically leave a 2" gap between the bottom of their comb and the bottom surface of their hive to keep brood and honey well away from detritus that will accumulate in the bottom of the hive.

I don't think frames with only 3 of 4 sides complete with wax are as strong nor as productive.

Just an observation. Wondering if anyone else has seen the same?




Offline Ben Framed

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Re: How much space
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2021, 07:13:44 pm »
Hello Vance, welcome to Beemaster. It's good to see you, a new member diving right in! I think I understand your question but to be clear I will ask. Is your beekeeping method foundationless, and your bees are stopping building comb before they finish the comb all the way to the bottom bar? Or, are you using plastic foundation or wax foundation and the bees do not finish drawing the comb out on this foundation all the way to the bottom bar?
 
I started out foundationless and like your Hawaiian days, I use 3/4 gap bottom board box rest edges. Many times the bees did not draw comb completely down to the bottom bar, even with 3/4 rest edges, 'for me'. But, they usually would in most cases, attach the comb to the bottom bar in several places along the edge of their drawn out comb.  So far, I have not used plastic for brood frames, only for honey supers..

Phillip

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Online The15thMember

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Re: How much space
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2021, 07:38:00 pm »
I'm a beekeeper who moved to New Zealand about 5 years ago from Hawaii.

In the USA I always used 3/4" (larger) bottom boards.

Here in NZ everyone uses 3/8" (about 12mm).

I've noticed here with the smaller 3/8" bottom boards bees will usually not complete the bottom edges of the frames with comb. They leave a gap between the frame's bottom bar and the rest of the wax comb. This never happened as much when I was using a 3/4" bottom board.

It is actually quite rare here to see a brood frame with the wax completed down to the frame's bottom bar. And If I move a frame down to the bottom position most of the time they will chew away a gap between the comb and the frames bottom bar.

I have read that bees in the wild typically leave a 2" gap between the bottom of their comb and the bottom surface of their hive to keep brood and honey well away from detritus that will accumulate in the bottom of the hive.

I don't think frames with only 3 of 4 sides complete with wax are as strong nor as productive.

Just an observation. Wondering if anyone else has seen the same?
Hi Vance, welcome to Beemaster!  :happy:  I'm not sure if they sell this piece of equipment in New Zealand, but you might try adding a slatted rack below the brood box.  Some people think the extra space helps to encourage them to draw all the way down.  I use them on most of my hives, and sometimes the bees draw all the way down and sometimes they don't, so I'm not sure how much it would help, but it's something you could try. 
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Online BeeMaster2

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Re: How much space
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2021, 07:52:35 am »
Vance,
Welcome to Beemaster.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: How much space
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2021, 01:54:21 pm »
You'll find that in certain areas of the brood nest the bees will even chew the wax foundation back to leave a gap.  This is their "dance ground".  They are making the comb in such a way that when a bee is dancing the vibration is being felt by all the "watchers".
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin