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Author Topic: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive  (Read 7769 times)

Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2018, 08:56:57 pm »
Yes, Lil John, hey Buddy, hope all is well..

Beepro stated in one of his text, that a nuc was not available.  Beepro mite just make it, depends on what part of California his bees are located and weather.   If adequate food is available the queen could start laying any day.  I?m kind of excited, I look everyday for an update by Beepro.  There is determination by Beepro to succeed with this little hive as the queen is precious.  I hope the fella makes it work. 
Blessings

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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2018, 11:15:29 pm »
Beepro,
Don't give up. I had a hive shrink to a very small ball of bees. After moving them into a Nuc, in late fall, I moved the remaining bees into my observation hive. On December 27, that queen had a quarter size starting to build from, at best 200 bees, and built the hive quickly. Hives at this latitude start building up on December 22, the winter equinox. That means you have a chance if you can keep them warm enough that they can survive the cold.
I think you can do it.
Jim
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Offline little john

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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2018, 08:30:25 am »
Yes, Lil John, hey Buddy, hope all is well..

Beepro stated in one of his text, that a nuc was not available.  Beepro mite just make it, depends on what part of California his bees are located and weather.   If adequate food is available the queen could start laying any day.  I?m kind of excited, I look everyday for an update by Beepro.  There is determination by Beepro to succeed with this little hive as the queen is precious.  I hope the fella makes it work. Blessings

Hi Van - yes, I read that too - but then he went on to say that he wasn't prepared to take the risk.  I interpret that as meaning that he couldn't purchase a nuc from outside.  So - what I'm suggesting is that he makes a nuc from one of his other hives - even at a crazy time of the year (hopefully that's still possible in California) - rather than engage in catching a few visiting bees in a net.  The problem with catching visiting bees is that these are highly likely to be scout foragers, and if they ever make it back to their home hives, then they will communicate that there's 'easy pickings' to be had from a colony which is completely unable to defend itself.  I'm sure I don't need to spell out the rest of that story ...

Honeybee colonies have a minimum survivable population - if memory serves, it's somewhere around 200.  Beepro tells us that this colony is now down to 50.  At that figure, there is no hope - unless more bees can be added.  Just think about the workload of larvae being fed - how many new bees can be raised in a brood cycle ?  How many of the resident bees will die during that time ?  It becomes a death rate vs birth rate equation.  I'd say with 200, then go for it - but with just 50, my advice would be to inject more bees - that will be necessary at some point anyway, even if spring started tomorrow, so why not enlarge the colony now rather than later ?
Like others here, I'm also rooting for him, and sincerely hope that he will make it - he deserves to after all this effort - but with a population of 50 bees I have become pessimistic - hence my suggestion.
LJ
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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2018, 09:44:16 am »
I am pessimistic about 200 bees because CA is a very tough state to raise bees that are stationary.  I think it explains why he doesn't have any resources to give this failing hive.  I don't really know what it takes to raise bees where beepro is.  I do know that it is a lot harder then where I am.
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Offline beepro

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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2018, 06:57:49 pm »
All of you guys are correct!

I needed more bees ahh, since yesterday.  But the sellers said no go.   One seller is dragging me along and thought that I said
I don't want any bees on our phone conversation yesterday.   Because I'm desperate for bees now I will not go further to offend him in any way.
I just told him that I needed 2 frame of bees if he can do me a favor.  With rainy days this early in the season (too late for my bees) it might be a good bee year.
I'll contact the seller again this Weds. after the rains if he is still willing to sell.   

Right now is the critical time for the bees.  And the seller know about it too.   Almond season is just around the corner.   If he sell me his bees then he might risk the chance that his colonies may not make it at early build up time in Feb.  I understand the hard situation the beekeepers are in right now over here.  I'm sure their hives are shrinking too.  And this worry the bee sellers.   So if I can somehow secure 2 frame of bees then I can save this expensive tf queen.

Right now I got them in a lock down mode inside a heated 72F nuc box.  I have since added the 2nd 100 watt ceramic light bulb so that the temp can be more constant inside.   Put them inside a 2 frame set up, one side is the drawn comb and the other side is an empty screened frame tied together with strings and rubber bands.   They are in there for 3 days already.   No bees can fly because if they do I'm sure they will all disappeared in one day.
Lock down mode trying to save a queen!

I will open up the entrance again once I have my 2 frame of bees.    Remember, it is not dead until the queen and bees are completely dead!  I will publish my findings once this is over-- the mistakes and all that I have made.   Weather play a big part to their survival.

Offline jalentour

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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2018, 07:15:58 pm »
A few years ago Michael Bush wrote about warming nucs in the winter.  I seem to remember pictures.  Does anyone know how that worked out.
Is it worth warming nucs in the winter in the midwest?

Offline Acebird

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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2018, 09:35:07 pm »
Warming from -20 to 10 degrees I can see a benefit but changing their environment to 72 degrees shortens their life.
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Online Michael Bush

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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2018, 04:35:46 pm »
>A few years ago Michael Bush wrote about warming nucs in the winter.  I seem to remember pictures.  Does anyone know how that worked out.
Is it worth warming nucs in the winter in the midwest?

As long as you keep them below 40 F there is some advantage.  Above that you shorten their life.  I'd be perfectly happy to keep them 20 F all winter...  As it is I have a number of nucs this winter and no heat.  They would have benefited from some heat a week and a half ago when it was -17 F...
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Offline beepro

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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2018, 06:29:09 pm »
Down to 20 or so bees.  Queen is still alive!


Still trying to get some bees.  But with the almonds run coming everybody is trying to
get some bees.  And the price is very high now at $350 for a double deep.  After the almonds run it will
be much cheaper but then my bees cannot wait any longer.   The last seller said the weather is still too cold and
dragging me along for more than one week.  He should kindly decline so not to waste my time.   My bees cannot wait!

Offline beepro

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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2018, 07:10:35 pm »
Up to 80 bees now.  Catching bees instead of butterfly!  Refusing to give up.

Yesterday was a sunny day in late after noon.  The feral bees are flying and foraging on my blooming mustard patch.
So I made a net out of laundry bag cut in half on a metal wire loop.    I use CO2 to temporary put the
bee to asleep while transferring it into the wire cage frame.   In an hour I can catch 30 or so bees while they are
on the mustard flowers. 

In another day I will release the queen out of her introduction cage into the wire cage frame with the new bees.
Many are young fuzzing looking foragers.  They can be converted back to the nurse bees since there are some eggs on
the frame.  If the claim is true then these young foragers are able to take care of the broods also.  We'll see how many
bees I can catch with a small net on a sunny day.  Cannot locate anybody to sell bees since they are at the almonds now.


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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2018, 07:07:39 am »
Beepro,
You will need to keep these new bees locked in fro at least 3 days to get them to stay with this hive. Even then there is a good chance when they are done foraging they will still fly their original hive. If you catch them at least 3 miles from your apiary they will not know the route to their old home.
Jim
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Offline beepro

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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2018, 06:17:43 pm »
I figured that it will take a lot of bees to build up a decent nest.  Too much time
wasted in catching bees on a nice sunny day.   So yesterday I contacted 2 Russian
men to take the bees to their house.   I asked to buy their bees but they are not
willing to sell.   So they promised me to give me back my hive full of bees with the same
queen in mid-March.   In return I gave them 15 brand new drawn comb for the exchange.

I will not wait until mid-March to get my bees from them.  In the bee world things can change
so fast.  For my backup plan I will contact another beekeeper to buy 2 of the 5 frame nuc hives from
him as soon as his bees are ready.   Then order 4 mite resistant queens for the quick splits.   The Spring
weather and honey flow cannot wait.   

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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2018, 10:31:16 pm »
Beepro,
Bee careful. That does not sound right. Not sure what they are planning.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline eltalia

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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2018, 04:57:15 am »
Beepro,
Bee careful. That does not sound right. Not sure what they are planning.
Jim

Lace the sugarblocks with 90proof vodka..?.. heh    :grin:

Bill

Offline Acebird

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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2018, 09:26:53 am »
So they promised me to give me back my hive full of bees with the same
queen in mid-March.

I am with Jim, how can they promise the queen will make it?
Brian Cardinal
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Offline eltalia

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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #55 on: January 22, 2018, 10:13:31 am »
I figured that it will take a lot of bees to build up a decent nest.  Too much time
wasted in catching bees on a nice sunny day. 


Off on a bit of a tangent here bP but may be worth a thought at your end
when you are keen enough to go chasing bees with a net to build numbers.

For local most recent (days ago) reasons I have had cause to set up
Ye Olde Bee Trap. What is needed as hardware is;
2 lid sized boards - "shims" as some know them - both have a 60mm
hole at center of plan view. One penetration has at least three thickness
of newsprint as a cover, the other leads into a Porter Bee Escape system.
I build my own but the method of one way routing is very flexible.
Bait is required and for that I use old drawn comb saturated with honey water.
Depending on number of bees captured you may also need more than
one viable colony to 'feed' the captured bees to. From what I read of your plight
one day one capture should fill your need for bees.
Soooo...
In the target zone...
the board of newsprint is laid down and a standard super placed on it.
The comb is then placed inside and the trap left for at least two hours.
On hot sunny days a shading method may be needed.
On inspection where it is seen there are copius numbers of bees working the
comb, and others stacked up in the air awaiting a turn, then it is time
place on the lid with bee escape. Wait another hour at least to then close the
bee escape and move the whole of the trap to your viable colony.
Both that colony and the captured bees will work the newsprint to combine
and so the captured bees will get on board in their new home.

In the situation I have I intend to do this as many times as it takes to
remove rogue foragers from my yard... it could take me some time to
scoop up better than 20K of bees ;-)

Bill


Offline Acebird

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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #56 on: January 22, 2018, 12:58:06 pm »
If you are catching foragers why in the heck wouldn't the forager go back to its own hive and bring back all her sisters to rob the hive out.  I would never add foragers to a struggling hive like that.
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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #57 on: January 22, 2018, 01:21:49 pm »
If you are catching foragers why in the heck wouldn't the forager go back to its own hive and bring back all her sisters to rob the hive out.  I would never add foragers to a struggling hive like that.
You can only do it if you lock them in and feed them or move them far enough away from their home that they cannot find their way home.
Jim
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Offline beepro

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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2018, 11:27:19 pm »
I told my 1st contact person that whatever the 2nd Russian man want to do with
my gears and queen is up to him.  Basically I wrote this queen off already.   But in case he can
help me with this queen's survival with a promise to return a full hive in mid-March then I'm happy with it.
My logic for making this decision was do I let this queen die or give it to someone who might be able to provide a home for her?  It is better than
someone pinching a queen because the hive is dwindling away.

Catching bees will take too long to build up a nice population for her.  Sending her to someone who may or may not be able to help might give
her a chance to survive.   It is better than pinching her!   If they come back then I will have some new bee friends.  If not then let this be another
learning lesson about meeting new people especially on CL.   In the end I've learned a lot about our bee environment this year.  Warm CA winter
weather is not good for my bees.  Cold and rainy days are better!

I've also ask the 1st contact person to make me a 5 frames nuc hive without a queen using my hive boxes and drawn frames.   That he agreed because the
cost is less than buying a 5 frames nuc on the market price.  Now the strategy is to buy 4 expensive Cordovan queens for expansion using these queen-less bees.   By then I should have either 5 or 10 frames of bees for the expansion.   This will give me 5 nuc hives and 60 drawn frames to expand.   The 1st contact person asked me over the phone where is his drawn frames after I gave him the first batch.   I told him I don't have that many because he would of take them all.   A bit greedy there.    Let's see how things work out this Spring.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2018, 09:15:25 am »
Warm CA winter
weather is not good for my bees.  Cold and rainy days are better!
I think you are coming to a wrong conclusion.  Warm, cold does not make a difference to bees.  They have adapted to these climates.
Quote
Now the strategy is to buy 4 expensive Cordovan queens for expansion using these queen-less bees.

I fear this is another mistake.  You would be further ahead to find out what it takes to succeed with mutts in your area.  Stop the home made experiments and do what other people around you are doing.  What is the point of reinventing the wheel?
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