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Author Topic: Dead larva tongue sticking out - AFB?  (Read 4419 times)

Offline Rurification

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Dead larva tongue sticking out - AFB?
« on: September 07, 2015, 02:21:30 pm »
I watched a bee remove this larva from a hive this morning.    I had noticed some other larvae being removed over the last week, but thought it was due to robbing or robbing clean up - those larvae were white. 

We inspected this hive 3 weeks ago.  No problems, no smell.   Then this.   

I had read on this page: http://catawba.ces.ncsu.edu/DiseasesofBees/  that older larvae with tongues sticking out are a sure sign of AFB.     

Is that what I'm looking at here?   

If so, what should I do? 
1.  Is there an inspector in Indiana who should be informed?
2.  Should I just tape the box up this evening when all the field bees are back and let the bees die and leave them until I can burn the bees,  frames and brood comb [It'll be several days].
3.  Can I harvest what honey is in this hive for us to eat?
4.  Can I harvest the wax and use it for candles?
5.  What kind of torch should we use to clean the interiors of the hiveboxes?


Robin Edmundson
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Beekeeping since 2012

Offline monarchis

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Re: Dead larva tongue sticking out - AFB?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2015, 03:13:40 pm »
Rurification this symptom (the tongue) is from poison. Maybe pesticides. If you observe dead bees in front of your beehive, defenetly is pesticides.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Dead larva tongue sticking out - AFB?
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2015, 03:22:16 pm »
Robin,
This is not AFB.
What they are referring to is the larva shrivel up and leave what looks like a tongue sticking up from the bottom of the cell.
The bee in the picture probably had mites in its cell and the bee died.
Notice there are no wings present. A good indicator of severe DWV, Deformed Wing Virus.
It could also bee just malformed.
I would not worry about it.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Dead larva tongue sticking out - AFB?
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2015, 03:34:38 pm »
Robin,
Do a search on American foulbrood pictures. It is hard to see pictures of the tongues but there are some. 
Smell your hives. Experienced Inspectors can often smell it just by walking near the infected hives. Don't confuse goldenrod with AFB. It smells like old socks.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Rurification

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Re: Dead larva tongue sticking out - AFB?
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2015, 03:43:55 pm »
THANK YOU!

I was not happy when I saw that little bugger, but I decided not to panic and to photo and check with you guys first.  [yay, me!   you have no idea how much self discipline it took not to panic.  I am a major drama queen.]

We have a lot of goldenrod and I know [and love] that smell - it's the season now, too.   This is my 4th year and I was certain I had not smelled the AFB rotten smell.  Neither did my daughter.  That's why I was so surprised and wanted to check with you guys. 

This hive had been an excellent one [first year nuc, boomed and seemed really great], but the queen had really slowed down when we had a cool snap.   I didn't worry and figured that since she was from North Dakota, she was just really slowing after the summer flow and prepping for winter.   I've been feeding from jars in each hive, it got very hot again and they've been holding steady.   

Thanks so much for the links and advice.    I'll keep my eyes open for more DWV - I've seen that before.    I should probably go in and inspect this hive in the next couple of weeks just to be sure, right?

Robin Edmundson
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Beekeeping since 2012

Offline Rurification

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Re: Dead larva tongue sticking out - AFB?
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2015, 08:56:29 am »
Spent some time watching that hive yesterday evening.   Got out there in time to see an orientation.   There were 4 other bees on the ground with deformed wings.    Studying up on mite treatments now. 
Robin Edmundson
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Dead larva tongue sticking out - AFB?
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2015, 02:23:56 am »
"Thanks so much for the links and advice.    I'll keep my eyes open for more DWV - I've seen that before.    I should probably go in and inspect this hive in the next couple of weeks just to be sure, right?"
Robin,
I would not be goinginto that hive. No real reason to bee disturbing it. I don't remember if you use SBS. If you do, what is your mite drop. count per day on this hive? 4 bees is not enough to  about. If your queen is producing 2000 eggs per day and 4 have DWV that they are detecting and removing, they are doing pretty good.
Remember, every time you take the hive apart, you are setting the hive back. If you have SHB, they will bee free to lay eggs all over the hive for 2 to 3 days after you tear it apart. I see this happen every time I take my observation hive apart. If the bees do not detect the SHB eggs/larvae in time and remove them then you have another problem.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Rurification

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Re: Dead larva tongue sticking out - AFB?
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2015, 02:48:23 pm »
I went to solid bottom boards this year, so no easy mite count.    The hives are in full sun and in 4 years I have only ever seen one beetle that might have been a SHB.   So that's good.   

I'm thinking I want to do the oxalic acid trickle on that hive for the mites, but I'll need to wait to do that until November when the brood size is way down.   

I wonder...can I do the trickle, then add the winter candy all at the same time in November?   Or should I wait and add the candy later.   Our winter comes slowly and we've been known to have 60s and up in the middle of November  [Jan and Feb are a whole 'nother story.]
Robin Edmundson
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Offline ricky_arthur

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Re: Dead larva tongue sticking out - AFB?
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2015, 06:57:14 pm »
If you are losing bees to mite vectored viruses, I would not wait till november to treat.  By then it will be too late to lay a healthy round of brood before winter.

Offline Rurification

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Re: Dead larva tongue sticking out - AFB?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2015, 12:40:40 pm »
Ricky - thank you for that suggestion.    I happened to find some MAQS at my local Rural King store [miracle!] and got the last box.   The weather is perfect this week and I treated yesterday.
Robin Edmundson
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Beekeeping since 2012

Offline Jim134

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Re: Dead larva tongue sticking out - AFB?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2015, 12:55:37 pm »
1 thing to remember AFB is a brood disease not and a adult bee disease



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Offline buzzbee

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Re: Dead larva tongue sticking out - AFB?
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2015, 07:42:06 pm »
Like Jim said, AFB is  a brood disease. And as Ricky said, if you have a mite problem, solve it now before the next couple of brood cycles that raise bees that ultimately will over winter.
The Quick strips should work well for you right now.Not only that, you don't have to remove any honeysupers if present.  Since it is recommended to leave reducers off during treatment, watch the entrances for yellow jackets. I had one hive getting hit hard . I have gotten  away reducing the entrances just a bit  after the first few days with quick strips. And the daytime temps will be a bit cooler after Friday too.

Offline Rurification

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Re: Dead larva tongue sticking out - AFB?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2015, 09:28:46 am »
Ken - you're right about yellow jackets.  I've been really watching that hive closely and yesterday set the reducer in front of the hive, but not actually in the entrance - just enough to give any robbers a visual barrier and slow them down.    The first minute I can late Saturday, I'm closing things back up.   Should be pretty hot today and I may scoot one side of the reducer back into the entrance just a bit more this evening.   
Robin Edmundson
www.rurification.com

Beekeeping since 2012