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Author Topic: Bee genetics  (Read 12798 times)

Offline AR Beekeeper

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #80 on: January 24, 2018, 02:00:49 pm »
According to Issac Hopkins the first European Honey Bees were landed in Australia in 1838.

Offline 220

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #81 on: January 24, 2018, 02:56:17 pm »
According to Issac Hopkins the first European Honey Bees were landed in Australia in 1838.

Most of what I can find claims the 1820's with 1822 popping up as the year quite often. Regardless it would have been a long slow sea voyage. 

Offline 220

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #82 on: January 24, 2018, 03:14:33 pm »
Maybe I'll have to reread over the thread. What's NP&WS?

Commonly known as National Sparks & Wildfires Service, a breeding refuge for all sorts of invasive flora and funa to whom none of the legaslative control requirements that apply to private property owners apply.

Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #83 on: January 24, 2018, 03:22:13 pm »
Oh, you mean CONGRESS, Ok I understand now. Thanks

Offline eltalia

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #84 on: January 24, 2018, 04:09:22 pm »

errr...ummm... is Congress a protected species too?

Get away from the paper shufflers to mix with the actual doers, scientists
and field managers, and they can be a very helpful bunch of people.

Bill

Offline eltalia

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #85 on: January 24, 2018, 04:11:19 pm »

(edit)
Transporting European bees to Australia would have been a daunting task, though.  Now that's a voyage that took months in the sailing days.  When did A. Melifera reach Australia?

.... an' an Equator crossing thrown in for good measure.
Oh to bee inside the head of the bee that first realised it was upside down
yet the GPS still read a horizon..!... and the confusion rampant over
the sun on it's back and running water all year around...!...whoaaaa, tis
a wonder the shock diddun kill them..! heh :-)

Bill

Offline AR Beekeeper

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #86 on: January 24, 2018, 04:45:07 pm »
I have read that it takes a little over two weeks for a colony to adjust to the sun being in the wrong location after they have been moved across the equator.  It takes me longer than that just to adjust to the change to daylight savings time.

Offline eltalia

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #87 on: January 24, 2018, 05:02:33 pm »
I have read that it takes a little over two weeks for a colony to adjust to the sun being in the wrong location after they have been moved across the equator.  It takes me longer than that just to adjust to the change to daylight savings time.

Here in Queensland DS was trialled back in the '70s... the
dairy cows went the bales to find nobody home, the workers were
all out cutting hay 'cos it was now 9AM not 8AM - milking time.
Sooo.. the cows all got mastitus (blocked tits) and subsequently
died. We then had to resort to soy milk which is why that generation
of Queensland babies today are mostly weedy, allergy ridden, maths
challenged SMARTphone addicts.
DS sucks, bigtime... my story illustrates this, heh ;-)))))

Bill

Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #88 on: January 24, 2018, 06:00:27 pm »
As you probably are aware, honey bees have an internal compass and can detect the magnetic poles using such for navigation.  Also the three little eyes centered above main pair of eyes affords night vision.

I believe, my observation, NOT FACT: worker bees sometimes return to their hive using other means than simple eye vision.  I have been body slammed many times by bees returning to their hive as if they were not looking, not utilizing eyesite at all.

Don?t confuse this with a purposeful bee slam as a warning to get back.  I am talking as if a bee were flying blind and this happens all the time.  I just ignore the drunk driver and the bee returns to the hive.  No harm done.

Offline omnimirage

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #89 on: January 24, 2018, 06:53:16 pm »
Maybe I'll have to reread over the thread. What's NP&WS?

National Parks & Wildlife Service.

You have missed or are ignoring a most relevant point I made earlier.
Feral bees are aggressive to other bees on the forage, to the point
it is believed they are responsible for examples of our native flora to
go extinct. How a feral colony behaves for you is irrelevant.

Bill

I really don't know what to think of this.

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #90 on: January 24, 2018, 07:52:59 pm »

[/quote]

Here in Queensland DS was trialled back in the '70s... the
dairy cows went the bales to find nobody home, the workers were
all out cutting hay 'cos it was now 9AM not 8AM - milking time.
Sooo.. the cows all got mastitus (blocked tits) and subsequently
died. We then had to resort to soy milk which is why that generation
of Queensland babies today are mostly weedy, allergy ridden, maths
challenged SMARTphone addicts.
DS sucks, bigtime... my story illustrates this, heh ;-)))))



So that's why we have all those things here.....i thought it was because they got bit by one of those nose-ringed, tatooed, granola kids at Whole Foods.  Thanks for enlightening usand giving us a laugh.

Bill
[/quote]
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #91 on: January 24, 2018, 07:54:19 pm »
I couldn't put my response where it needed to go, Bill.  Sorry 'bout that, but thanks again for the laugh.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline eltalia

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #92 on: January 24, 2018, 09:23:56 pm »
I couldn't put my response where it needed to go, Bill.  Sorry 'bout that, but thanks again for the laugh.

... no worries DB, glad to read the software allowed the fun through ;-)

Bill

Offline Acebird

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #93 on: January 25, 2018, 10:16:58 am »
Domestic colonies would have begun casting swarms the first year.  One thing bees do well is multiply.

One thing anything does well when coming to a virgin land is multiply or die.  They didn't die so they surely multiplied.  Plus the colonist would have moved the hives as nucs or packages.  How smooth a ride do you think packages get today?
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #94 on: January 25, 2018, 12:38:37 pm »
Back then weren't they using skeps?
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline eltalia

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #95 on: January 25, 2018, 08:06:41 pm »
Back then weren't they using skeps?
For Australia it seems to bee of little worth in noting within
a ship's log but as our lot were Pommies I doubt they were into
skeps... more likely rum casks ;-)
I studied all this stuff back when as part of Ag. quals, so it is only
1826 stuck in my head. Yet the only reference today I can quickly
find says different... and the PDF wont load for me:
https://www.scribd.com/document/16347941/Were-honey-bees-successfully-introduced-into-Australia-in-1822

Regardless.. not only did they survive on landing, they boomed.
As did the colonialists once they sorted the occupants of this Land
out, murdered them.
For those interested today we celebrate Australia Day, a day that marks
the first landing at Botany Bay.. declaring Terra Nullus as British property.

Bill

Offline omnimirage

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #96 on: January 26, 2018, 07:50:47 am »
Today I've done some research into different honeybee species, specifically focusing on Western honey bees. I found this:

http://beesource.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/table1beetraits.png

It states that the Apis mellifera ligustica, or Ligurian, Italian honeybee is the most productive honey production wise. Is this thought to be true? All things considering, it seems this subspecies would be best for me. The disadvantages of excessive brood reading seems like it could be largely mitigated with some forethought and maybe sugar feeding. Do you guys have much thought on comparing different subspecies of Apis mellifera in environments with winters that don't reach freezing levels, and that don't have Varroa or much pests/diseases in general?


@eltalia

I've done some reading into the impact of feral honeybees on the local Australian environment. My reading did not mention anything regarding certain bee subspecies causing more damage than others. From what I gathered, feral bees cause issues two ways:

1) They set up hives in trees that other animals, mostly birds, need to survive. With feral bees taking up these hallow trees, these other animals are having issues finding a home and with it, surviving. From what I've gathered, this is the most damaging factor feral beehives are having, which isn't relevant to me because my bees are in supers rather than trees.

2) They compete with other animals, mostly native Australian bees, for resources such as nectar and pollen. Wouldn't any species of honeybee do such?

Offline eltalia

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #97 on: January 26, 2018, 11:15:55 am »
@eltalia

I've done some reading into the impact of feral honeybees on the local Australian environment.
My reading did not mention anything regarding certain bee subspecies causing more damage than others.

At least two States I have run apiarys in run legislation that
has a basic "find and destroy" clause for ferals. There could be others
I was not made aware of.

Bill

Offline bwallace23350

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #98 on: January 26, 2018, 12:36:19 pm »
Today I've done some research into different honeybee species, specifically focusing on Western honey bees. I found this:

http://beesource.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/table1beetraits.png

It states that the Apis mellifera ligustica, or Ligurian, Italian honeybee is the most productive honey production wise. Is this thought to be true? All things considering, it seems this subspecies would be best for me. The disadvantages of excessive brood reading seems like it could be largely mitigated with some forethought and maybe sugar feeding. Do you guys have much thought on comparing different subspecies of Apis mellifera in environments with winters that don't reach freezing levels, and that don't have Varroa or much pests/diseases in general?


In there it says that Italians are just ok on propolis My, at once were pure Italians, had basically glued down the top of my hives. I had to struggle to pull them open.

@eltalia

I've done some reading into the impact of feral honeybees on the local Australian environment. My reading did not mention anything regarding certain bee subspecies causing more damage than others. From what I gathered, feral bees cause issues two ways:

1) They set up hives in trees that other animals, mostly birds, need to survive. With feral bees taking up these hallow trees, these other animals are having issues finding a home and with it, surviving. From what I've gathered, this is the most damaging factor feral beehives are having, which isn't relevant to me because my bees are in supers rather than trees.

2) They compete with other animals, mostly native Australian bees, for resources such as nectar and pollen. Wouldn't any species of honeybee do such?

Offline eltalia

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Re: Bee genetics
« Reply #99 on: January 26, 2018, 04:45:51 pm »

In there it says that Italians are just ok on propolis My, at once were pure Italians, had basically
glued down the top of my hives. I had to struggle to pull them open.

....errrrm... there is no reference supplied with that example of work. it could
have been compiled anywhere by anyone.
Propolis is a gathering exercise by the bees and so can and does vary greatly
between sites in quality and definitely in scale of scarcity between colonies at
the same site.
There are reports in those lines I would question, however for Italian over
Caucasian - in respect of propolis - I can live with.

Bill