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Internal regulation in a winter nuc hive
beepro:
Hi, All!
In an effort to save a small 2 frames nuc hive over this winter, I've added supplement heat to my current set up. Without this supplement heat at the most critical time a late winter arctic chills here will ditch them in for sure. Such a dwindling nuc hive will not stand a chance of surviving. My net research showed that a winter cluster prefer their internal hive temp. around 85F when brood less and with broods around 93F. This also correspond with my hive observation so far.
If the internal brood nest temp. warm up too much then the bees will expand which will allow more air flow to cool down the brood nest.
In the top empty nuc box I have a small 100 watt ceramic light bulb. The bottom box where all the nectar/pollen frames are at, I have 2, 10 watt small animal heat pads next to the edge of the box wall on either side. They still have small patches of cap broods and eggs in the middle nuc box. The queen still continue to lay with flying weather in the low 60s at day time. Foragers are still flying and collecting from the late blooming Loquat flowers providing both nectar and pollen.
It is now almost a month since using the supplement heat set up. Even though we're in zone 9, the nightly winter temp. will dip in to low 40s at times. This will give them the chilled brood if there aren't enough bees to cover the broods. Foragers are still dying by the day but there are the newly emerged young bees that will replace them. In order to measure the inside hive temp throughout this winter, I have 2 probes on at all time. One measure the inside brood nest temp while the second probe measure the hive temp in the top box next to the 100 watt bulb connected to a temp. controller.
When it was warmer 3 weeks ago, I set the brood nest temp. at LB = 83F and UB = 85F. Now as mid-Autumn approaches, the night time temp is in the low 40s. Tonight's hive temp reading is at 83.4F and brood nest temp at 93.3F. Seeing that the brood nest temp is around 93F I've raised the controller temp at LB = 85.5F and UB = 87F.
I still see some bees next to the light bulb screen warming themselves up tonight. Maybe this temp. setting is still too low.
As you can see, even with the controller temp up a bit it is nowhere near the 93F brood nest temperature inside.
My question is should I raise the controller temp. even more say 90F? What is the ideal inside hive temp. (not the brood nest temp) to set over this winter?
Dallasbeek:
Wow! It seems to me you are trying to do for the bees what they have done for themselves for millions of years. I don't know where to start, but I'll just pick a spot. The bees will regulate the temperature very well for themselves. They need nutrition a lot more than they need a light bulb in the hive, which is usually dark. In fact, I don't know what a light bulb in the hive might do to them. Where in California are you, for goodness sake? You aren't in the high Sierras, because you say the nighttime temp sometimes goes to 40 degrees. I assume that's a +40 degrees f, in which case that's cozy for the bees.
I'll leave it to some others to comment on the rest of your posting, but I recommend you read everything on Michael Bush's website for starters.
Let us know if you have any bees in the spring.
Welcome to the forum, by the way. Ask questions and you'll get good answers here (mine being the exception). There are a lot of good people on this forum who are ready to help.
little john:
Well, a 2-frame nuc is small, so as an experiment, I'd say "why not heat the box ?"
Having said that, I very much agree with D-Beek that under normal circumstances continuous supplemental heating really shouldn't be necessary when over-wintering colonies. But - let's not forget that if colonies are really small, then in the natural environment they wouldn't have a snowball's hope in hell of surviving winter.
Over here, many beekeepers overwinter their nucs on top of full-sized colonies, in order to provide a modest amount of supplemental heating. I believe Brother Adam was one of the first to start doing this. But - this is only to keep nucleus colonies surviving or 'just ticking over' during the winter months - and it was never intended for them to be actively raising brood during this period as a result.
Personally, I'm against the use of continuous electrical supplemental heating - but can see advantages in having a small thermostatically-controlled heater installed in those boxes housing the smallest of colonies, so that should temperatures dip very low for extended periods, a modest amount of heat could then be supplied - just for a few hours - sufficient only to allow the bees to briefly break cluster in order for them to re-locate themselves onto a fresh area of stores.
LJ
Acebird:
--- Quote from: beepro on November 29, 2017, 12:08:42 am ---My question is should I raise the controller temp. even more say 90F? What is the ideal inside hive temp. (not the brood nest temp) to set over this winter?
--- End quote ---
I would say definitely no. In winter the ideal temperature is 40 ish. It keeps the colony from consuming needed resources. The sensible thing IMV would be to add bees and food if needed to this hive and allow the queen to rest from brood rearing if the colony should choose to do so. It doesn't make sense to me that if a colony was short on food and short on bees that you would add the one thing that it doesn't need, a heat source.
Assuming your experiment went your way and these bees survived. What is the usefulness of it's success?
BeeMaster2:
I also have a 2 frame hive that I am over wintering in about the same climate as yours. Mine is my observation hive that is on my screened in patio. Instead of adding heat, I added several layers of blankets. So far it is working well. I just have to keep a small vent open in the top to allow a little bit of air flow. .
Jim
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