Nuc hive into 8 frame questions and worries

[HKSmonaro]

Hi Guys,

I hoping someone can help me and give me some confidence that my second hive isnt going to absconder/swarm. so the story is;

I bought my second (first one bought a few weeks ago and going strong) a 5-frame nuc hive from a Bee keeper yesterday, I picked it up in the morning and then drove home. On the way home the lid popp'ed open slightly and maybe 50-100 bee's got out (which i scooped up and put into of the nuc hive which I placed in the location exactly where the 8 frame will go eventually.\, they all went back inside slowly)

Later that afternoon I noticed the NUC box (plastic kind) wasn't really staying closed and decided to move them into there 8-frame new brood box (this was most likely my mistake trying to relocated them again i'm guessing?). While moving them the bee's we not aggressive, just used a little bit of smoke and the switch from the nuc to the 8-frame went smoothly.

After the switch I watched them for a while and noticed different behavior compared to first hive i recently did, 20-40 bee's where always at the entrance and some flying out with little larvae and others one honey comb parts. In the space of an hour or so I noticed about 5-10 larvae being removed and flown away (not just dumped at the front of the hive).

I started to get a little worried now but also have read that after move they can do some house cleaning ec ec.

About 2 hours later I noticed the queen pop her head out of the entrance (she is about 16 months old I was told and is fertilized). She came completely outside and flew away for 15 seconds or so and then flew back in. Now i was really worried. I also read somewhere that some people put a queen excluder at the entrance for 1-2 days after a move to help them settle and stop a potential swarm due to hive disruption.

I prepared a small piece of queen excluder and as I was kneeling down in front of the entrance wondering if I should use it, the queen appeared again, I quickly brushed by finger against the entrance and she went back in side. I then put the queen excluder on the entrance.

It is about 24 hours now since I've got the excluder up, no drones seem to be stuck out side and worker bee's are coming in and out like crazy, the hour I watched this morning only 2 bee's came back with pollen on there legs. Also noticed a few work bee's with there bums up facing the entrance fanning there wings like crazy, it is only a 26 degree day here (26c) so they shouldnt be over heating.

Did I do the right thing putting up the excluder if so how long should I leave it up for?
Are the bee's building comb and thats why I'm not see'ing them come back with heaps of yellow/organe stuff on there leg's like the other hive?
Should I open the lid to see if Ive lost allot of worker bee's?
How long after a location move and NUC to 8-frame swap should you see them doing there normal routine?
Am I just worrying over nothing and should just let them do there thing?

Picture is what they are doing now

thanks heaps!

Cheers,

nic

[BeeMaster2]

First of all, relax.
The bees with their butts in the air and fanning their wings are putting out a lemon smelling pheromone to call any young lost bees back to the hive. Normal after a move.
Bees seem to bring in more pollen in the morning and evening. Actually they are like us and bring in what ever the house bees tell them to bring in.
I would leave the queen excluder on for a couple of more days. Are you sure it is a mated queen? Is it marked and did toe seller show it to you or did he just tell you it is 16 months old?
Let them get established for at least 10 days.
Jim

[HKSmonaro]

Hi Jim,

thanks heaps for your reply.

The bee keeper I got it from usually creates nuc from a hive which is just over a year old. He then sells the NUCs typically at markets. The hive which this NUC box was made from was re-queened around 16 months ago, so give or take a month he said it will be around that. He showed her to me and it she looked 'young' even though I have no idea what I'm looking at (comparing it to what Ive researched it resembled a young queen, large abdomen ec). The queen isn't marked.

I'll leave the excluder in for a few more days as you suggest.

So pretty much hands off the hive for 10 days now?

thanks again,

[BeeMaster2]

The reason I say a few days, is if the queen cannot leave the bees will return if they try to abscond. The reason for only 3 days is in case it is a new queen, which it sounds like, she will have plenty of time to make her maiden flight.
Good luck
Jim

[cao]

Welcome 

I would tend to agree with sawdstmakr.  It will take them a couple days to get their boxes unpacked after the move to a new home.

[HKSmonaro]

ok cool, thanks heaps of the advise guys! will report back 8 or so days :)

Totally amazing what Bee's are capable!

cheers!

[Acebird]

What about the queen taking off and coming back?  I am wondering if there is another queen in the hive.  How was the hive requeened?  Was the old one pinched?
Of course I am all about leaving them alone for 10 days just not sure about the QE.

[BeeMaster2]

Brian,
See the first 4 posts. The seller just built the Nuc from an existing hive and moved the old queen into it. He did not see her. I suspect she is being superceeded hence only leaving the QE on for 3 days so that the new queen will be able to mate. If there is a new queen, the old queen is probably still in the hive.
Jim

[HKSmonaro]

morning guys,

well its day three now and after watching the hive for 10 minutes has shown their behavior has completely changed, heaps of bees are coming back with pollen/nectar on there leg. They are also clearly leaving and return the hive with absolute purpose now, no more hanging around the entrance like the first day and a half. It looks like they are in full swing now!

On another note, my small hive beetle trap caught 70 beetles in 28 hours, im guessing maybe them fanning the lemon pheromone out like crazy to attract lost bees also attracted them? In comparison, my first hive move from the nuc to 8-frame was smooth done late in the evening and so far has only caught 36 beetles in 9 days since it was setup.

cheers,

[BeeMaster2]

HK,
It is not the nasinof pheromones that attract the SHB. As a mater of fact when I set my traps with lemon grass oil it seems to keep other bugs out.
The bees put out a stress pheromone that attracts SHB.
JIM

[HKSmonaro]

cool, thanks for the info!

another update, just went down and check out the hive, its 5PM and sun is getting ready to set and noticed the queen again popped her head out and fly out again for 15-30 seconds or so, when she returned there was another bee kinda hanging or trying to grab her leg as she quickly went back inside. Maybe I'm just lucky seeing this or she has been doing it all day?

Its definitely the queen as she is massive in size compared to the all the others and her abdomen is more of a darker amber color compared to the work bees who have the typical blackish stripes.

She then appeared again on the land entrance and back inside for 10 seconds and went back in. I'm guess you made the right call in her maybe not being mated? or do they sometimes leave the hive for joy flights?

Cheers,

[Acebird]

If they leave they don't normally leave alone unless it is for mating.  They don't do that at 5PM around here.  What are your daytime temperatures like?

[BeeMaster2]

HK,
Does she have a short abdomen or a long one? Are you familiar with the differences between a queen and a drone? Even drones don't normally leave the hive in the evening. There are just a lot more of them that would make it more likely.
It is possible that she is orienting to the hive. 5 o'clock does sound too late for a queen to bee out.
Queens only leave the hive to orient for mating, mating and swarming. I have heard of virgin queens coming out of the hive and hiding on the outside of the hive. Probably because there was a stronger queen in the hive.
Jim

[HKSmonaro]

Hi,

She has a much much longer abdomen. I've looked up some photos online and it definitely was the queen, from size to color. At 5PM yesterday it was about 28 degrees celsius, still nice and warm. It only gets dark around 7PM here as day light savings has just kicked in. I havnt really been able to clearly see the different between the drones and work bee's yet though.

This morning now they are in full worker mode, heaps of bee's coming in with massive amounts of pollen/nectar on there legs. No sure on the status inside, but I'll open up the hive after the 10 day mark and look for the queen. I'll mark her too so I can keep track.

cheers,

[Acebird]

In a short while the drones will appear and you will see the difference.  They come in like B52's and take off like Osprey.

[HKSmonaro]

In a short while the drones will appear and you will see the difference.  They come in like B52's and take off like Osprey.

HAHAHA best explanation I've heard this decade!

will keep my eye out for them!