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Keep Queen-Cells vertical ?

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little john:
This happens without fail every single year ... just as the Queen-Rearing season comes to an end I find something Queen-Rearing-related that I'd really like to try out.  This year it's this "keeping Queen-Cells vertical" business.

Like almost all other beekeepers I guess, my Queen Cells are always kept vertical - religiously so. Why ? Because that's what I've always been advised to do.  Here are a couple of links which feature this mantra:
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/inducedsupersedure.html
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/celltransport.html

I've never questioned this ... that is, until today.  As it was raining (yet again) yesterday I was indoors watching a video about Queen-Rearing in Nepal, and was amazed to see a guy insert Queen Cells into home-made cages, and then place them horizontally onto frame top-bars until the virgins emerged.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA0dnwtDaUw

There are two slight 'wrinkles' here: one is that these queens are Cerana (but does this matter ?), and the second was that he doesn't say how old those Queen Cells were.  But, it's certainly got me thinking.

Here's another example from another of his videos, where he's inserted grafted Q/C's into home-made queen-cages ... again, horizontally.



I half-remember seeing a Youtube video where one guy regularly transported his Q/C's on their sides, inside a box lined with cotton-wool.  And I've just stumbled across a FatBeeMan video where he cuts out Q/C's with the frame upside-down.  And - if you think about this - it's only swarm cells which are truly vertical anyway - the others are half-vertical and half-horizontal.

So - does anyone have any definitive info on what would happen if a Queen Cell were laid on it's side throughout it's metamorphosis ? Scientific paper or w.h.y. ?  If not, I'll be putting this to the test sometime next year.

Beekeeping ... don't you just love it ?
LJ

eltalia:
Never given orientation much thought LJ, so off the top of my head I reckon "why not".
It is the larval stage that feeds, so I'd reckon that during pupation -  which has the head
at the leaving end - it follows all food has been consumed leaving no liquid for the pupae
to drown in, and a gravity assisted leaving/birthing. Also has credibilty in finding some
virgin queens of petite stature in the same rearing birthing first, their feeding regime was
less than the further developed queens one selects for.
So, given the emerging queen chews her way out, and has the benefit of front legs to
drag the body with, I cannot see why not go horizontal.
It's likely just another thing we beekeepers have been told by mentors to accept blindly?
"Have faith, de Lawd will deliver" type thing : grins:

Cheers.

Bill

Michael Bush:
>does anyone have any definitive info on what would happen if a Queen Cell were laid on it's side throughout it's metamorphosis

According to Huber it will develop normally as will a worker in  horizontal position.

"When the end of their metamorphosis approaches, they are only two lines (11/64th in. or 4mm) from the orifice of the cell.  The position which they assume is always the same; they are bent in an arc.  It follows that, in the horizontal cells, such as those of the workers or of drones, the larvae are perpendicular to the horizon; on the contrary, in the royal cells, the worms are placed horizontally.  It might be thought that the difference of position has great influence on the increment of the various larvae, yet it has none.  By reversing combs containing common cells of brood, I brought the worms to a horizontal position, but they did not suffer in their development.  I have also turned the royal cells so that their worms were placed vertically and their growth was neither less speedy nor less perfect."Francis Huber, New Observations on Bees, Vol I, Eighth letter.

http://bushfarms.com/huber.htm#eggtoadult

little john:
Thanks very much Michael - it doesn't get much more definitive than Huber. 

And - of course - ordinary workers and drones develop horizontally - so why should queens be significantly different ?  That now begs the question - where on earth did this "must keep vertical" mantra originate ?

Thanks again.
LJ

Michael Bush:
>where on earth did this "must keep vertical" mantra originate ?

It probably should have been "you should always be gentle with queen cells and this is even more important if they are not vertical"  The problem with not being gentle while not being vertical is this is the most likely way you end up damaging wing buds of the queen.

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