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Author Topic: Dead/dying bees. Nosema on inner cover  (Read 187 times)

Offline salvo

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Dead/dying bees. Nosema on inner cover
« on: August 09, 2017, 11:48:28 pm »
Hi Folks,

A friend, 2017 newbee,  called me, a 2011 newbee, to look at one of his two hives. Pile of dead bees on the ground in front. A dozen dead and dying bees on top of the inner cover. Maybe about twenty dead and dying bees inside, on bottom board. Dying bees were trembling, obviously in spasms prior to death. Nosema (diarrhea) stains on inner cover. No noticeable dead bees in the other hive,... but nosema stains on inner cover.

Southeast Massachusetts. Cranberry bogs. Rural setting. He said his neighbors know of his bees, they don't use pesticides. There ARE small vegetable gardens around. IDK. I live a half mile away. Shared forage area. My bees are fine.

It was his stronger hive. Now knocked back. However, still lots of bees, capped brood and larvae in hive. We saw the queen. Active and recently laying. Too many bees and too many frames of brood to identify and pull best frames and queen out to a new, clean nuc.

Thoughts??? What to do? I have fumagillin. Never used it. Never had to. Could it help? Could it hurt?

Sal
Salvo

Offline eltalia

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Re: Dead/dying bees. Nosema on inner cover
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2017, 05:25:46 am »
Reads to m as you having done what is the prudent way to go, Sal.
Wait it out now, keeping an eye on the uncapped brood when next inspecting.

Cheers.

Bill

Offline GSF

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Re: Dead/dying bees. Nosema on inner cover
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2017, 08:30:18 am »
I think one cause of nosema is too much moisture. This year seems like it would be supportive of that around here.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Dead/dying bees. Nosema on inner cover
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2017, 03:23:06 pm »
I'm not sure what "nosema stains" are.  I guess you mean feces.  Trembling bees with dysentery sounds more likely tracheal mites than Nosema.  Mostly the bees are all resistant now, but that doesn't mean that sometimes a colony doesn't have a weakness for them.  To test for Nosema, get a microscope and field strip some bees and examine the contents of their guts.  Also look for white opaque guts as opposed to healthy translucent guts.

Most of the Nosema is now Nosema cerana and the latest research says that fumidil will make it worse.
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Offline Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Dead/dying bees. Nosema on inner cover
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2017, 05:12:20 pm »
Mr. Salvo, greetings.  I am NOT going to advise you to treat or not to treat with fumigallin.  That decision is up to you.  However, fumigallin is probably more toxic, much more toxic than you realize.  You should google independent (not mfg) toxic reports on this product and see for yourself.  Then decide if you wish to treat with this product.  Hope the bees recover.
Blessings

Offline Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Dead/dying bees. Nosema on inner cover
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2017, 05:20:50 pm »
Fumigallin, MSDS: catergory 4 acute toxin.

https://www.caymanchem.com/msdss/11332m.pdf

Offline salvo

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Re: Dead/dying bees. Nosema on inner cover
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2017, 12:20:08 am »
Hi Folks,

Thanks for the advice. No fumagillin.

Massachusetts has a State Bee Inspector. We're going to call her office Monday. I've heard that she is pretty good. Takes her job seriously. She, or her minions (Yes, Kim. It's that guy.) (I bet she reads this forum.) will likely come to collect samples. I hear they will only take samples collected by themselves.

I saw a report by her department today. The tests indicated a patchwork of maladies including European Foulbrood. The two hives looked good to me. Neither suffered in the two months since the test. The beek was pulling good looking frames of capped honey. I guess it does go to show that disease is ever present, but an otherwise strong hive can cope.

Anyway, my pal is going to put a grease patty in his hive. It apparently can't hurt. Menthol has issues.

Thanks again.

Sal 
Salvo

Offline eltalia

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Re: Dead/dying bees. Nosema on inner cover
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2017, 02:18:10 am »
What I take away from this thread Sal, is how lucky you guys are to have a cooperative and "kindly"
inspection service.
For us in Aussie - and many anecdotals to back the statement - what inspectors we do have are
more of the "parking meter cop" type. One-eyed bureaucrats reading off an A4 song-sheet, a box
of redheads (zippo lighters) in their pocket being fondled as they deliver their verdict.
Testing costs money in their book so "looks like a duck, quacks like a duck - it IS a duck" applies
more often then not. They are the last people one would call into an apiary - and a lot of other
places on a property/block/ranch also.
A good reason to remain anonymous in forums - as other savvy Aussies might well agree.

Cheers.

Bill