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Author Topic: New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?  (Read 473 times)

Offline tjc1

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New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?
« on: August 02, 2017, 05:55:09 pm »
I split a hive and the half without a queen made their own. The new queen has just started laying, but I found four queen cups at the bottom edges of a couple of frames, two of which have big larvae in them. Why would this be?

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2017, 05:59:25 pm »
May be the bees don't like her and are going to supersede her.
How many frames of bees are in the hive? And what size hive is it?

Offline tjc1

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Re: New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2017, 06:20:21 pm »
It is half of an overwintered nuc. It is in two 10-frame mediums which are not full: probably 5 unused frames right now. I'm surprised that they might make a judgment on a queen so quickly - she's been laying about 1 week.

Offline eltalia

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Re: New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2017, 12:51:42 am »

G'day tjc1..
Remove the cups and introduce that queen to your freezer.
Install a line bred queen.
With some luck she will slipstream what the old queen was
up to and so set the colony up for winter.

Cheers.

Bill

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2017, 08:35:41 am »
I would leave the queen cells. You will bee better off with a locally raised/mated queen.
I suspect that you have been in this hive a few times since she hatched. This can cause the bees to replace her. You need to give a new queen time to prove her self before inspecting the hive.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline Acebird

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Re: New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2017, 09:01:51 am »
I would go with Jim's suggestion.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2017, 11:11:37 am »
Both suggestions by Jim and EL have merit.  Both will work.  Emphasis on advice Jim gave, leave the newly established queen alone.  If you inspect to often the bees might "blame" the new queen.  Blessings

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2017, 07:11:21 pm »
Because in be keeping there is never an absolute and only option, so I will add another option, and which one you take is dependant on the direction you want your apiary to head.
If you let the bees cap the queen cells and then remove them with another frame of bees and put them into a 4 frame nuc and let the cells hatch. Make sure you leave the queen behind.  You can then watch what happens in the hive and whether removing the cells they may go with the new queen or start the whole supersedure process again, if so I would go with Jim and let the bees sort it out.
But you may now have a new nuc that can be grown or used to fix a problem hive.

Offline Acebird

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Re: New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2017, 09:20:15 pm »
If you inspect to often the bees might "blame" the new queen.  Blessings
I don't inspect.  Nature has figured this out without my involvement.  If it doesn't work and that does happen I know what to do.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline eltalia

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Re: New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2017, 09:53:52 pm »

Whilst I cannot speak for others I do assume in reading questions with answers that all providing input know _all_ the possible options to then select a solution that fits both best practice and optimum success .. on all fronts.
There are absolutely absolutes known through historical evidents which should shape any input to an observed need for intervention.
Just one of these is "Time versus Numbers of", particularly in light of some global locations owning very narrow windows of opportunity.

I link to one weather matrix for Plymouth MA.

http://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/plymouth/massachusetts/united-states/usma0333

Given it is now the fourth of August - at least it is in Australia - *and* that matrix cites first snow in November, with 'fall' beginning in late September, one should be asking oneself just how many bee-days remain to build a colony for wintering.
Reading "I 'm surprised that they might make a judgment on a queen so quickly - she's been laying about 1 week" amongst 635 other posts, I gather this BK knows their stuff - or should know - well enough to know the bee-days from his original post to first snows.
I suggest requeening right now with a laying queen is the only option available to have any chance of filling out those five frames with whatever before the colony has to be packed for winter.
Regardless of  whom is located where in respect of offering advice on wintering the absolutes make the above option "common sense".
As always - others "opinion" will vary.

Cheers.

Bill

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and others entrenched in whatever practice they adopted first. "
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Offline Acebird

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Re: New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2017, 09:51:54 am »
Bill common sense says you can add as many frames of syrup or honey to a hive and have it survive winter if it has enough bees (mostly young) and a laying queen.  Destroying a queen that hasn't had a chance to prove herself would not be my choice at this time.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline tjc1

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Re: New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2017, 11:28:42 am »
Thanks so much everyone. Here are my notes on all observations of the hive so far, just for info that might help you give me more feedback:

July 2, 2017 - Four queen cells present, two capped

July 22, 2017 - no sign of queen, eggs or larvae. Took a frame of BIAS from hive 3 and gave it to this hive in case they need to raise another queen.

July 25, 2017 - New queen laying. No queen cells built on the frame of BIAS that I gave them on the 22nd. Added a frame of capped brood from hive 1 to bolster numbers as new queen gets going.

August 1, 2017 - New Queen cells?!?!
New queen laying but not strongly perhaps due to lack of nectar [a problem we are having in the area that I have referenced in another post]. I found 3-4 queen cups on bottom edges of two frames, at least two of which have large larvae in them ? is this a poor queen that they are already getting ready to replace?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 10:54:12 am by tjc1 »

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2017, 11:56:30 am »
Good notes.
It looks like the bees are trying to correct a problem. Hopefully the new queen will have the right traits to survive.
I once removed a very large hive from a box that had seven dust in the bottom. The bottom of the box was littered with dead bees. Half of the comb was very old. I wonder how many queens this hive went through to find one with the genetics to be able to neutralize the poison in their system and survive?
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2017, 01:24:16 pm »
How did seven dust get in bottom of hive??!   Bet there is a good story behind that event.

Offline tjc1

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Re: New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2017, 11:07:18 am »
I try to intervene/inspect as little as possible. As you can see, I stayed out of the hive during the queen gestation once I saw that they had cells. I waited until I thought it likely they would have a laying queen before checking in again and to give them the frame of BIAS in case and only went back in 3 days later to see if there were new queen cells or a queen - perhaps I should have skipped that visit and waited longer to see what was happening...

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2017, 08:24:34 pm »
How did seven dust get in bottom of hive??!   Bet there is a good story behind that event.
The truck bee tool box was used by the previous home owner and a storage box for yard equipment. It was an old bag of seven dust. I kept the brood and threw away all of the honey (a lot of honey) and comb just to be on the safe side.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline eltalia

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Re: New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2017, 10:46:45 am »
How did seven dust get in bottom of hive??!   Bet there is a good story behind that event.
The truck bee tool box was used by the previous home owner and a storage box for yard equipment. It was an old bag of seven dust. I kept the brood and threw away all of the honey (a lot of honey) and comb just to be on the safe side.
Jim

Crikey... you had me beat with that "seven dust" thing.
Now the penny drops ;-)
https://foodtruthfreedom.wordpress.com/2012/02/11/sevin-dust-is-not-your-garden-friend/

Cheers.

Bill

Offline Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: New queen starts laying and now there are queen cells?
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2017, 02:15:35 pm »
Mr Bill:  thanks for the link about seven dust.  A detailed article for sure.  I did not realize seven dust has cyanide "cyano" derivative as a basic of the chemical.  I avoid all and any chemical with "cyano" in its chemical make up.
Blessings