Author Topic: What would you do? (Read 3623 times)

Fishing-Nut · « **on:** July 02, 2017, 05:37:28 pm »

I did a cut out over the past 2 days on a huge colony/hive inside a house that was built in 1835. I do construction for a living so it was pretty interesting to me while de constructing some of this old house. I couldn't help but think of and try to imagine the carpenter from back then that drove in those old hand made cut nails. I saved some of them and so did the people who just purchased the home. Anyway the hive was huge. I saved some brood comb with eggs and larvae with lots of bees. I am pretty sure I didn't get the Queen. It's hard to explain but the way this hive was situated I was only able to get about half of it out without making a mess of it. The other half I had to reach way up into the wall/ceiling and pretty much tear it out. It made a huge honey mess, and unfortunately lots of bees died during the process. The bees never acted like I got the queen, and the weather is bad so I really can't go into them right now. My question is this. Would you let these bees re Queen themselves, or would you give them a queen. I want to let them re Queen themselves because while going through this hive over the past 2 days I never saw one single hive beetle, and the bees we're really thriving, this hive was over 3 feet wide and every bit of 8 feet tall. We were very impressed with what those bees had been doing. And it was real obvious that they had been there for years. We have a pretty serious hive beetle problem here in Georgia, and I was amazed that I didn't see a single one. I'm new to bee keeping and could be wrong, but I'm thinking that the fact that they keep those beetles in check like that may be a genetic thing. And if it is I sure would like to hang on to that.

Hops Brewster · « **Reply #1 on:** July 02, 2017, 06:30:05 pm »

HIve beetles very well could have been up in the far reaches of the hive that you were unable to get into. Strong hives can keep them corralled up in the corners and crannies.
If you got some eggs or very young larvae with your portion of the cutout thyey should be able to requeen themselves.
The hive may have been there for years, but not necessarily that particular colony. Colonies in any given hive location die, and new swarms take their place.

Unless you captured or killed the queen and completely removed all brood and comb from the hive, and permanently sealed any and all possible access holes, the cutout was incomplete and the problem could continue for the homeowner.

Fishing-Nut · « **Reply #2 on:** July 02, 2017, 06:56:47 pm »

100% of the comb was removed, and the entry point was replaced, and sealed with caulking. Also that bathroom along with other portions of the home are about to get a complete remodel. Probably done by me.

Van, Arkansas, USA · « **Reply #3 on:** July 02, 2017, 07:49:10 pm »

Fishnut, I would have enjoyed seeing those hand made taper square nails. A cool story you told. Just my opinion, I would try to maintain the genetic lineage: 3ft by 8ft is a huge hive with no beetles in sight. Yes, as mentioned the beetles could still be there, maybe a young hive,,,, but maybe just maybe this could be an old survival hive and that would be precious to me. I say give it a try, let the bees requeen themselves. You could always requeen in the future.

iddee · « **Reply #4 on:** July 02, 2017, 07:50:25 pm »

I would check them every 3 to 4 days. If there were shb in the hive, or are around your apiary, they will strike a stressed hive quickly.

Hops may have a secret I have never found, but I always thought sealing it off was impossible. I make it a point to pack the area tightly with insulation so they have no open space to hang comb. That is the only way I have been able to keep another swarm from moving in.

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 02, 2017, 08:47:26 pm »

I would try to let them requeen just for the genetics especially if you have a lot of bees.
Jim

Fishing-Nut · « **Reply #6 on:** July 02, 2017, 09:50:51 pm »

Thank y'all for the advice I really appreciate it.

Fishing-Nut · « **Reply #7 on:** July 02, 2017, 11:02:22 pm »

Also lots of these bees are solid black and slick. All of them are slick with little to no hair, but lots of them are solid black. What do y'all think of that?

Van, Arkansas, USA · « **Reply #8 on:** July 03, 2017, 10:07:45 am »

I have seen the slick solid black bees without hair in my hives. They are beautiful and very rare with my Bees. I'm guessing the numbers are 1hairless to 100 normal. I do not understand the genetics associated with the hairless black bee.

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 03, 2017, 10:18:36 am »

From what I have read, most of the coloring comes from the hair.
You may have a lot of European Black Bee genetics in your bees. According to Michael, there are no more pure Black Bee populations left in the world. Are they were real agressive? If so you may have them. The reason they have been rejected by beekeepers is because they are hard to work.
Jim

paus · « **Reply #10 on:** July 03, 2017, 10:25:14 am »

I have mixed bees in one of my hives, and this has been explained, by the queen mating with multiple drones from various genetics. I have a wild hive on my place (I think) that is all black, when I feed outside the hive they come to the syrup and I have bee lined them and now have a close approximation as to their hive location.

Fishing-Nut · « **Reply #11 on:** July 03, 2017, 11:19:53 am »

They weren't what I would call "real aggressive". But they got pretty testy several times. I took a good many stings during the 2 days I was over there, and that was with a full suit on. Wet with sweat of course. When they would decide to try and make me stop it would be a bunch of them on me at one time. But they definitely weren't like that the whole time. It was like several times throughout the day they would decide they've had enough and let me know all about it. But I sure can't blame them.

little john · « **Reply #12 on:** July 03, 2017, 12:05:13 pm »

In my experience, the bald, hairless bees tend to be the older members of the community. Just like humans ...

I'd also recommend giving them the opportunity to re-queen themselves. Even if you don't get to use the resulting queens yourself, I'm sure there are lots of folk who would love to acquire proven survivor stock.
LJ

Fishing-Nut · « **Reply #13 on:** July 03, 2017, 12:24:56 pm »

Thank y'all. I have decided to just cross my fingers and hope for the best. I'll leave them alone for a while and then check to see how they are doing. Little John I see that you are from England. My grandmother is from wales. We also raise glocestershire old spot hogs out on pasture. Those hogs originated from England.

Captain776 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 04, 2017, 08:51:50 pm »

The bees I removed last week were Black and looked smaller than my bees and for all I put them thru, they were very gentle, no stings first day and 5 second day during vacuuming

eltalia · « **Reply #15 on:** July 05, 2017, 12:46:51 pm »

G'day F-N
Top story, well told... you may have something special in that colony, pethaps send
some sample bees off to an entomologist?
By all means keep an eye on them for a bit. You have a queen restricted
entrance for the immediate future?

... lucks to you

Cheers.

Bill

Fishing-Nut · « **Reply #16 on:** July 05, 2017, 04:39:08 pm »

Thank you eltailia. I do not have an excluder on them.

eltalia · « **Reply #17 on:** July 05, 2017, 07:45:14 pm »

Quote from: Fishing-Nut on July 05, 2017, 04:39:08 pm

Thank you eltailia. I do not have an excluder on them.

So we are clear, I am pointing to a physical barrier over the entrance of the box
made specificaly for those bees denying any queen passing, in either direction.

While I have your ear?
I caught your comments on suiting up in high ambients, and wholly empathise.
The chance of heat exhaustion here in the Tropics is at it's worst exactly when
many of these jobs come in. As a loose referable source I do recommend that
JP Beeman bloke as someone to follow in technique, he reminds myself of a
much younger me (beard et al) at a time when overalls and mosquito net were
the only options and thus rarely worn. "Going commando" being the practice and
in so doing building an astute attitude towards bee behaviour.
Like this job of yours tho' ... there are times :-)
Go well, stay safe.

Cheers.

Bill

Fishing-Nut · « **Reply #18 on:** July 05, 2017, 08:09:24 pm »

Oh I see. Thank you for the correction. I do not have anything on them to keep a queen from coming in or out of the box. They are currently working hard on some Queen cells though. I really hope they make it. And I watch a ton of JP the bee mans videos. Those videos and my construction background is what makes me want to do cutouts. I appreciate all the advice.

Fishing-Nut · « **Reply #19 on:** July 05, 2017, 10:56:30 pm »

Ok, so there are now some Queen cells/cups in the hive. I had a break in the weather today and took a peak. I saw bees sticking there heads in them. What does this tell you? I tried my best to see down in them but couldn't make out larvae in either of them. Does the fact that bees are sticking there heads in them mean that they are in fact feeding larvae?

eltalia · « **Reply #20 on:** July 06, 2017, 10:11:49 am »

Yes, emergency queen cells.
The origin queen didn't make it through the trauma
or has swarmed off after the first day of cutout, or left your box since.
Count the days and be happy the base genetics will partially survive.

Cheers.

Bill

Fishing-Nut · « **Reply #21 on:** July 06, 2017, 12:23:29 pm »

Eltailia , so does the bees going into the Queen cells tell you that there has to be a larvae inside? I know this is probably a dumb question but I am very curious. And would love for these bees to survive with a queen from there own genetics. The only queenless hive I've ever dealt with was super defensive and I took quite a few stings. This one is not acting like that at all.

eltalia · « **Reply #22 on:** July 06, 2017, 07:39:46 pm »

Quote from: Fishing-Nut on July 06, 2017, 12:23:29 pm

Eltailia , so does the bees going into the Queen cells tell you that there has to be a larvae inside?

Nursing bees attending those cells would be very obvious, given the timing from Days of Trauma. Give it a another day or so and you should be seeing the cells being drawn out further.
Right now if you wish to play a little - without disturbing the activity - you could use a dentists mirror and a penlight to look inside the cup.
From your account, counting back, the egg is likely on Day 05 so you should be seeing a small wriggler maybe 4mm in length. YMMV

Quote

I know this is probably a dumb question but I am very curious. And would love for these bees to survive with a queen from there own genetics. The only queenless hive I've ever dealt with was super defensive and I took quite a few stings. This one is not acting like that at all.

Don't take this as judgement but fellas of my disposition get wary when reading "probably a dumb question" as it is neither dumb nor "polite preamble".. many reading here would know what you are seeing, AND they 'speak' your dialect, I don't, I refuse to.
An estuary fisher myself, I know light braid+long leader+ light bait = huge flathead hooked up on an 8llb rod, like :-)

It is way early for the colony to recognise and react as a "queenless colony".. right now they are doing what Michael Bush promotes as a solution to LW colonies in only concerntrating on raising the viable eggs, some as queens. What you describe may come if this build fails to produce a queen, something that is highly unlikely given your diligence during the cutout and the size of the colony described.
Do keep us updated :-)

Cheers.

Bill

Fishing-Nut · « **Reply #23 on:** July 06, 2017, 09:44:57 pm »

I am unsure what you mean by "refuse to speak my dialect". And I definitely don't take it as a judgement call. But I think maybe the phrase I used "probably a dumb question", is something that isn't used at all, or used in a totally different fashion where you come from. But where I come from it's used on a daily basis. And i was basically meaning that to a more experienced bee keeper, the question probably sounded very immature, or made it obvious that I was a very new bee keeper. Either way. No offense taken, and I really appreciate any advice I can get. My buddy has a wife from Russia. Here in the South, we cuss and tell nasty jokes, and say things to each other in a joking manner that doesn't make any sense to some cultures. Well I said some things to my friend/co-worker and his wife slapped the heck out of my face. I got pretty heated but bit my tongue. He had to explain to her that I was joking, and that's just what we do. She thought she was defending his honor or something. Oh well. We all had a good laugh about it afterwards.

eltalia · « **Reply #24 on:** July 06, 2017, 10:15:03 pm »

I am saying I won't be persuaded to build whole edits in the American way..being resolute in owning my own Aussie identity.
Some have a problem with this ethos.
Nothing to do with bees or the topic, I have run across the same problem in many modern online forums. Newbies being always welcome as they draw out editorial..new players with loads of experience on the topics are not so welcome. Before I learnt to stay on topic and be succinct I was Tossd off many a forum, including a few fishing spots!! :laugh:

... all good, no worries. I hear you :-)

Cheers.

Bill

Fishing-Nut · « **Reply #25 on:** July 06, 2017, 10:23:48 pm »

Understood.

Author Topic: What would you do? (Read 3623 times)

Van, Arkansas, USA

Van, Arkansas, USA