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Author Topic: What is going on in Europe?  (Read 1365 times)

Offline bwallace23350

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What is going on in Europe?
« on: June 22, 2017, 03:49:31 pm »
Terrorist attacks are happening regularly and then you had another attack against Muslims. Does anyone think this will spiral out of control soon?

Offline kathyp

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Re: What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2017, 08:04:21 pm »
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Does anyone think this will spiral out of control soon?

Possibly.  I think the lone wolf attacks are more psychologically damaging to the general public.  You can convince the people that a small group does not represent the larger group.  It's harder to convince the people that the larger group is OK when it spins off attackers that don't seem to have an organization as motive, but are attacking because of ideology alone.  At that point, all become suspect and retaliation against all is going to seem justified. 

Solution?  IDK.....
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 06:49:29 pm by kathyp »
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Psparr

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Re: What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2017, 09:14:43 pm »
I see it continuing. Only because these aren't terrorist attacks. It is a jihad. They aren't trying to scare us, they are trying to start a holy war to bring about the Cala fate.
This jihad will easily build upon itself. Muslims have proven through history that they like a good fight.

Offline Acebird

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Re: What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2017, 08:59:59 am »
Muslims have proven through history that they like a good fight.

OMG  We train one Muslim group how to kill another Muslim group and provide weapons each and every time we get involved in the middle east.  Then 10 years pass and we don't like the group we trained to fight so we train another group, sometimes multiple groups, give them arms to fight the group we once supported.  That is what history has proven.
It is time to learn from history as we keep repeating the same mistake. 
Solution:
Stop coming in taking sides with guns a blazing and keep out of the tribal wars.  Provide humanitarian support and safe haven to those that ASK.  NO GUNS.  Sanction the rulers who commit atrocities against their own.  History has proven this works.  It will always work because you gain friends instead of enemies.
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Offline GSF

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Re: What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2017, 09:21:48 am »
The military industrial complex needs conflicts to keep their products moving. Both sides of the isle eat from their table. Who is the most aggressive, invasive, country on the globe? Not Russia, Not China, but it is the US. Again, both sides of the isle are to be blamed.
When the law no longer protects you from the corrupt, but protects the corrupt from you - then you know your nation is doomed.

Offline bwallace23350

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Re: What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2017, 09:41:30 am »
Polls and studies have found that a significant portion of the Muslim population in Great Britain for instance supports stuff like Sharia and suicide bombings or at least find them justified. I think the situation gets worse as the Muslim population increase and the native population decreases.

Offline Acebird

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Re: What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2017, 09:56:53 am »
I guess the world is doomed because the Muslim population is growing faster then the Christian population.
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Offline Psparr

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Re: What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2017, 10:21:57 am »
I guess the world is doomed because the Muslim population is growing faster then the Christian population.
I know that was in humor, but I agree with that statement. Ace I also agree with you that we get involved with too many other people's problems. But muslims have been warring before Americans were around. We certainly didn't light that fire.
How are sanctions on Iran and n Korea working?

Offline Acebird

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Re: What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2017, 10:46:17 am »
How are sanctions on Iran and n Korea working?

They are working pretty good.  Now if we would put as much effort into getting other countries to sanction them as we do showing our guns they would be a non issue.  It takes too many resources to support an aggressive offence to be a threat (check out our military budget).  Iran said they would never enter into an agreement with the west and then they did.  Iran was once our friend.  Things change.  Sanctions brought Iran into an agreement.  Sanctions would bring N Korea into an agreement.  Hard to get an agreement when you got one wack job threatening another wack job.
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Offline Psparr

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What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2017, 12:11:06 pm »
Iran entered into an agreement they have no intention of obiding by. They are playing us for fools.

Offline Acebird

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Re: What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2017, 01:20:01 pm »
Iran entered into an agreement they have no intention of obiding by. They are playing us for fools.
They have to let inspectors in.  There are consequences if they don't abide.  In the other case N. Korea, we have no idea what they have or what they can do.  That my friend is stupid.
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entered into an agreement they have no intention of obiding by.
Sounds like Trump.
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Offline Psparr

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Re: What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2017, 02:17:42 pm »
The inspectors have to give notice before they can inspect. What good is that. There are also areas where inspectors aren't allowed to go. Sounds like ruse to me.

Offline Acebird

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Re: What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2017, 04:42:19 pm »
The inspectors have to give notice before they can inspect. What good is that.

Most inspectors give notice before they inspect.  Does your bee inspector show up unannounced and just dig into your hives?
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Offline Psparr

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Re: What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2017, 06:53:43 pm »
The inspectors have to give notice before they can inspect. What good is that.

Most inspectors give notice before they inspect.  Does your bee inspector show up unannounced and just dig into your hives?
That's just dumb. Me trying to hide foul brood is just a dumb analogy to Iran trying to hide nuke activity.

Offline kathyp

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Re: What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2017, 07:08:04 pm »
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OMG  We train one Muslim group how to kill another Muslim group and provide weapons each and every time we get involved in the middle east.  Then 10 years pass and we don't like the group we trained to fight so we train another group, sometimes multiple groups, give them arms to fight the group we once supported.  That is what history has proven.
It is time to learn from history as we keep repeating the same mistake.

This is not entirely incorrect, but it doesn't matter.  The religion has been in conquest mode since its founding.  What we do or don't doesn't matter to their goals.  To the extent that engaging costs us money or resources it impacts us but it does not slow or speed what they want to do. 

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They are working pretty good.  Now if we would put as much effort into getting other countries to sanction them as we do showing our guns they would be a non issue.

The UN has never had an inspection program that worked.  Everyone they were supposed to be watching became nuclear powers except Iraq.  It was the UN failure to certify the conditions in Iraq that led us to war with them again.   If you doubt that, go back and read the UN reports from Blix and  ElBaradei before the war.  Much rewriting of history has been done, but the original docs are still out there for those who care.

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They have to let inspectors in.  There are consequences if they don't abide.

What are those consequences?  how do we know if they are not complying if there are "no go" zones in their country...just like Iraq.

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Most inspectors give notice before they inspect.  Does your bee inspector show up unannounced and just dig into your hives?

Really??  Do you want to compare a hive inspection to compliance on weapons?  And if my inspector does give notice and there is a hive I wish to keep from him what will I do with it?  Maybe hide it??

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In the other case N. Korea, we have no idea what they have or what they can do.

What do you suggest we do about that?  here is what has been tried.  I am sure the powers would love any suggestions you have

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron

Honestly, I think NK is less likely to use nukes that Iran.  NK, however, has sold a lot of its tech to Iran.  They have also been caught smuggling hardware to Iran.  We don't know what got through.  I believe that when Iran is confident that it can make enough missiles work to accomplish its end of world beliefs/goals, they will use them.  The Muslim world believes that also and that is why the one thing they unite on is their wish to rein in Iran. 




They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Geoff

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Re: What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2017, 09:32:17 pm »
I guess the world is doomed because the Muslim population is growing faster then the Christian population.
In all of this no one is counting us Agnostics and Atheists ! !
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Offline Psparr

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Re: What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2017, 10:01:47 pm »
I guess the world is doomed because the Muslim population is growing faster then the Christian population.
In all of this no one is counting us Agnostics and Atheists ! !
Well they will certainly help speed up the cause.

Offline Acebird

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Re: What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2017, 09:31:26 am »
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In all of this no one is counting us Agnostics and Atheists ! !
When you get down to it most of the world is Agnostic but they pick a labeled religion to be called.  If the world truly believed in God there would be no wars.  There would be no killing.  Because all religions do not condone killing.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2017, 10:07:30 am »
Kathy, that is the biggest line of horse poop you ever wrote.  Bush had it in for Saddam Hussein dating back to his father.  They were long friends of the Saudi's who were nervous about Saddam's intentions during the Kuwait war.  Bush took it upon himself to take out Saddam and then celebrated his capture.  Where were the weapons of mass destruction?  Oh there weren't any.
The single most threat of nuclear use is in the White House.  He is the one who said " I think we should use nukes".  Of course now we all know he is a pathological liar.  But his incompetence in the White house has raised the threat of aggression in the world.
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how do we know if they are not complying if there are "no go" zones in their country.
Most productive inspections are carried out by reviewing documents. It is extremely hard to cheat when documentation is involved.  The need to physically see the nuclear war head is not necessary.  Documents will show what they are doing and that does not require ever going there.
Do you think we should allow inspectors from the UN to go everywhere they want in this country to prove we are not building more nukes when our president said we should use them?  We can't even keep Putin from meddling in our elections when we know he is doing it.  We certainly don't want people from other countries having card blanch to go everywhere on a witch hunt.
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Offline bwallace23350

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Re: What is going on in Europe?
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2017, 10:46:30 am »
Inspections are the best we are going to get with Iran. It was either inspections that gives us some heads up on their nuclear ability or if you wanted to destroy them you h ad to go to war to do so. Take your pick. Iran is not an irrational actor. Even if they had nukes they are not going to use them or give them to a terrorist group as you can track nuclear material back to its specific reactors. We would all know soon enough that it was Iran and that would be the end of Iran.

But lets be serious, Trump is not a threat to use nuclear weapons.