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Author Topic: The removal of confederate monuments  (Read 867 times)

Offline beecanbee

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Re: The removal of confederate monuments
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2017, 03:28:00 am »
One serious problem with hate speech is that it encourages or emboldens illegal harmful physical action by some, who otherwise would not take that action.  Hate speech would likely be moderated if the speaker/influencer was also charged for the physical crime under conspiracy laws.  The `hater` could still say whatever he wanted, given the freedom to speech, but pay the same penalty as the criminal actor if it could be shown that his speech/blog/book/etc. likely influenced the criminal.  Beecan

The problem with moderators is bias.  Who decides what is hate speech and what is reasonable.  I say Brian Cardinal spews hate speech, but, he has the right to say it.  Not on a private forum, if the owners decide, but in public, whenever and wherever he chooses.  As long as he does no harm. 

The US government has no right to moderate my, or other free speech.  In Europe that is not true.  You can be silenced by the government easily for warming comments, anti-islamic comments, pro nazi comments.

I didn`t suggest a moderator - just legal co-responsibility for crimes committed on the basis of speech that encourages those crimes.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 07:54:29 pm by beecanbee »
"I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me."  Duncan Vandiver

A boy can do half the work of a man, but two boys do less, and three boys get nothing done at all. :)

(False) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.  - Samuel Johnson

Offline kathyp

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Re: The removal of confederate monuments
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2017, 11:09:52 pm »
Quote
One serious problem with hate speech is that it encourages or emboldens illegal harmful physical action by some, who otherwise would not take that action.  Hate speech would likely be moderated if the speaker/influencer was also charged for the physical crime under conspiracy laws.  The `hater` could still say whatever he wanted, given the freedom to speech, but pay the same penalty as the criminal actor if it could be shown that his speech/blog/book/etc. likely influenced the criminal.

  If it can be shown that you incited behavior that is criminal or damaging it can already be charged.  Anything other than that is trying to make one person responsible for the behavior choices of another.  That's nuts. 
If I say I hate cats and I think everyone should hate cats, then my neighbor goes and kills a bunch of cats, I am not responsible for his choice. 

conspiracy requires 2 or more people to plan or act together.  If someone acts on what they hear and they are not directed to act, or the act is not planned,  it is not a conspiracy.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
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Offline beecanbee

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Re: The removal of confederate monuments
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2017, 01:41:18 am »
... conspiracy requires 2 or more people to plan or act together.  If someone acts on what they hear and they are not directed to act, or the act is not planned,  it is not a conspiracy. 

Agreed - that is the way the law works today.  But my suggestion is to expand that - to cover cases where it can be demonstrated that the criminal has been embolden to take action based upon hate speech.  For example, at a hate rally (KKK, anti Muslim, anti government, etc.), speaker says - Go out there and kill some xyz`s, or prints the same in their blog, newsletter, etc., and a criminal or mentally deficient person does exactly that, and it is shown that the criminal read or heard that admonition, and it is reasonable to presume that they would not have acted had they not read or heard - EVEN tho said speaker/writer and said criminal never directly spoke together, nor planned together - THEN I would include said speaker/writer within the conspiracy.  Claiming no responsibility due to free speech, IMO, is nonsense.
"I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me."  Duncan Vandiver

A boy can do half the work of a man, but two boys do less, and three boys get nothing done at all. :)

(False) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.  - Samuel Johnson