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Author Topic: Manchester Atrocity  (Read 3831 times)

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2017, 05:50:20 pm »
If there aren't armed guards everywhere, I think your leaders are even dumber than I thought before.

A concealed carry permit is issued to very few, if any, crazies. I don't remember any mass shooting or armed robbery carried out by a concealed carry permittee. Could you give me an example?

Also, explain why there are fewer shootings where gun control is lax and more where gun control is strictest.

In the USA, that is.
Iddee
 Could you explain why you feel it necessary to carry a concealed firearm? Are you scared of the people around you, of your local Nurse, Doctor would you take a weapon into an hospital/church/school or is it more about ego? The feeling of power that other people don't know your carring a concealed gun and you could easily kill them at anytime! Not that I think you would contemplate such a thing, but presumably such a thing has happened. Just sayin'as someone posted on this thread.
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Online iddee

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2017, 07:46:42 pm »
Cider, why do you buy insurance? Is it so you can create a tragedy and get paid for it? I don't think so. I think you buy it hoping it will be a waste of money that you never collect on, but it does make you sleep better knowing you have it. I carry a weapon for the same reason I buy insurance. Hoping I never need it, but want to be sure I have it if it is ever needed. A nurse here was just recently charged with another murder.   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4544982/Angel-Death-nurse-indicted-baby-s-death.html

There are crazies everywhere, so yes, I carry anywhere I can legally do so. You never know where a tragedy may strike.
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Offline jvalentour

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2017, 02:21:56 am »
Cider,
In our country Iddee has the right to carry a firearm for any reason he chooses. 
Unlike the UK, we have a Bill of Rights.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2017, 07:33:49 am »
Cheer,
I spent more than 1/2 of my adult life protecting your rights. One of them is the right to bear arms. It is the one right that protects the rest of your rights. It is insurance that we hope that we never need.
I was sitting in a restaurant with my shooting buddies one night after practice. One guy was a federal marshal. For some unknown reason, maybe because it was hot and his clothes could not conceal it very well. that night he carried his pistol exposed. Three men walked in the front door with long coats on and walked all the way around the restaurant. He watched them and when they saw his gun, they walked out the emergency exit door.
If he was not carrying open, it probably would have been a very bad scene.
Al lot of good men died for your rights. Don't ever let anyone ever take them away.
Japan decided not to attack mainland US because we had more guns in the hands of avenge citizens than they had in their military. Their citizens were not allowed to own them. That alone is a good reason to have guns.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2017, 08:46:40 am »
Cider,
In our country Iddee has the right to carry a firearm for any reason he chooses. 

No he doesn't.  The rights are not inclusive for all parts of our country.  Having the right to carry and having the right to use it are two different things.  What makes people nervous is that some of of the people that are given permits don't know the difference.  In some instances this results in a citizen with rights becoming a criminal with no rights.
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Online iddee

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2017, 09:23:49 am »
Ace, yes I do. In some areas it may be concealed, in others it may be exposed. In some areas, it may need to be a pistol, in other areas it may be a long arm. In all areas, outside forbidden pieces of property, it is legal to carry in all 50 states.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2017, 09:28:47 am »
Are you or were you a member of law enforcement?
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Online iddee

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2017, 09:53:58 am »
NO, unless you consider military as being law enforcement, which I don't.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2017, 10:04:49 am »
Quote
If you got non-resident permits in all the four, you would only be able to travel in 41 out of 50 states with a legal concealed carry pistol.
CA and DE do not allow out of state permits.
http://concealednation.org/2015/12/federal-concealed-carry-permits-do-they-exist-for-citizens/

Military is law enforcement.
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Online iddee

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2017, 01:18:06 pm »
Carrying a weapon  includes concealed, open., pistols and long arms. The discussion is on carrying a weapon, not just concealed pistols.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2017, 06:06:49 pm »
Quote
The City of New York has its own set of laws and requires permits to own any long gun or pistol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_York
You can't walk down Manhattan with a long gun.  I doubt if you can do it in many large cities.  When I was young rifles and shot guns were hanging in the back of the truck.  Not so much anymore.  Different world today.
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2017, 11:16:22 pm »
Quote
No he doesn't.  The rights are not inclusive for all parts of our country.  Having the right to carry and having the right to use it are two different things.  What makes people nervous is that some of of the people that are given permits don't know the difference.  In some instances this results in a citizen with rights becoming a criminal with no rights.

It is true that different states have different laws, but the SCOTUS has found that ALL states must allow gun ownership in a reasonable way.  So yes, we have the right to be armed wherever we are even if those rights are different from state to state.

Quote
Military is law enforcement.

It is not US law enforcement except to the extent it is sworn to defend the constitution.  To that end, it might well be something far different that law enforcement in the US if it ever came down to it.  The purpose of the military is to kill people and break things...in other countries.

Quote
Could you explain why you feel it necessary to carry a concealed firearm? Are you scared of the people around you, of your local Nurse, Doctor would you take a weapon into an hospital/church/school or is it more about ego? The feeling of power that other people don't know your carring a concealed gun and you could easily kill them at anytime! Not that I think you would contemplate such a thing, but presumably such a thing has happened. Just sayin'as someone posted on this thread.

I, too, have a concealed carry permit.  We all have different reasons for getting them.  Fear is not among mine.

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline jvalentour

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2017, 12:41:37 am »
Brian,
Splitting hairs to make a point makes a weak point.
Move on to a topic you know something about.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2017, 09:58:32 am »
The purpose of the military is to kill people and break things...in other countries.

No actually the purpose of the military is to protect us from foreign invasion.  It did not happen in pearl Harbor, it did not happen on 911.  It has been used as a police force on many occasions on college campuses, during hurricanes, airports, toppling regimes and imperialistic maneuvers in foreign countries and just recently used as a political maneuver to reassure voters.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2017, 10:06:13 am »
Cider,
In our country Iddee has the right to carry a firearm for any reason he chooses. 
Unlike the UK, we have a Bill of Rights.

May I remind you that you are the one that insulted a British gentleman on this forum and I am merely pointing out how wrong you are.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Psparr

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2017, 12:06:43 pm »
We do have the right to carry period!
It's the states and the Supreme Court that pervert the constitution and try to limit that RIGHT.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2017, 12:30:04 pm »
This guy had a right too and now 8 people are dead.
https://apnews.com/09b4067f71b9405d84b6d43911191098
He is right about one thing "I ain't fit to live" unfortunately that won't happen.
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2017, 12:39:18 pm »
They are as dangerous to our way of life as any we have ever faced. 

.   What Muslim country comes to our land (ours now because we stole it from the Indians) with war machines and troupes, kills our citizens, blows up our buildings and claims they are helping us on a daily basis?
We have an educational system that is government funded up until the high school level, even have required core subjects such as history and geography and some how come out the dumbest people that ever walked the earth.  How can that be?

It is not a Muslim COUNTRY that is invading us, of course.  If you understood Islam, it is not a nation state, but a political religion whose adherents are directed to conquer the world in the name of Allah. If the immigrants moved to other countries with the intention of becoming British or French or Americans, etc., there'd be no problem; in a couple of generations they would be assimilated just as the Irish, Poles, Italians and others have done.  But they have no such intention (earlier immigrants from the Mideast excepted, for the most part).

As for the education system, I agree to some extent.  Better schools might even have taught you to spell, though your errors may simply be typing errors.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2017, 12:50:22 pm »
This guy had a right too and now 8 people are dead.
https://apnews.com/09b4067f71b9405d84b6d43911191098
He is right about one thing "I ain't fit to live" unfortunately that won't happen.

Yes, he had a right to possess and even carry, but not to murder.  Most of us who carry do so to defend and protect.  And yes, I was once in law enforcement, have been vetted, fingerprinted more times than I could count, have had security clearances and have carried a firearm most of my life.  None of which gives me the right to shoot innocent people, but I would gladly have shot this guy and hope I would have had better bullet placement than whoever injured this mutt.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Online iddee

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Re: Manchester Atrocity
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2017, 01:22:26 pm »
So what's your point? These guys didn't have a right to carry and there are dozens dead and over a hundred wounded. It was guns that stopped it from going farther, though.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-26402367

Guns have nothing to do with murder. It is no more than a tool.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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