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Author Topic: Silence is Golden  (Read 2387 times)

Offline bwallace23350

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Re: Silence is Golden
« Reply #80 on: May 31, 2017, 09:25:11 am »
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I worry most about the turd in the white house bringing more really bad things to our citizens.  Biggly.

You can blame the last turd for things being in the condition they are now.  The spread of radicalism and the subsequent deaths are on his head. 

Again I ask you what is your vision of a world with no US intervention...details please of how you think that plays out.  And understand, I am not in favor of a lot of our intervention, but I am in favor of people believing that the MOAB hangs over their head.

Kathy, 
We had 8 years of nonintervention and appeasement.  With Iran it worked as a holding action as our EU partners lack a spine and welcome insane immigration.  In the pacific our partners bow to the Chinese currency manipulators to support their declining populations.  A shooting war is inevitable. 
If not with this administration, the next.

Could you point to me those 8 years of nonintervention and appeasement?

Offline Acebird

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Re: Silence is Golden
« Reply #81 on: May 31, 2017, 10:11:39 am »
but I am in favor of people believing that the MOAB hangs over their head.

Why do you believe in that when it doesn't work?  It seems to me you have more of a fear that a MOAB will be used on us.  Why is that?  Why are Republicans so fearful of other countries.  My only guess is how they treat people in other countries.
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Silence is Golden
« Reply #82 on: May 31, 2017, 02:27:58 pm »
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Why are Republicans so fearful of other countries.

1. it is not fear and 2. it is less about countries than about ideology.

The left seems to have this rosy picture of the world that says everyone wants the same peace and security that we want and if we would only be nice, all would be well.

It's a lovely idea, but it is destroyed by the study of the ideologies that various groups embrace.  It is the failure of the left to study those beliefs that leads them to make deals with countries like NK and Iran thinking that if we are only friendly and helpful they will like us.

The communists swore to destroy democracy and capitalism.  The Islamist want to destroy everyone who doesn't believe as they do.  The NKs are just nuts.  They tell us their intent and the left thinks it's a joke to be ignored.  The Iranians want to usher in the Mahdi and have a plan to do it.  None of the intentions of these groups would be mitigated by our niceness. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: Silence is Golden
« Reply #83 on: June 01, 2017, 08:47:34 am »
The left seems to have this rosy picture of the world that says everyone wants the same peace and security that we want and if we would only be nice, all would be well.
You say we want "peace" and in the same sentence you say "if we would only be nice".  How does one obtain peace if you are not nice?

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It is the failure of the left to study those beliefs that leads them to make deals with countries like NK and Iran thinking that if we are only friendly and helpful they will like us.
  You rewriting history?  The deal was to get independent inspectors into their country to shut down the nuke program.  I suppose your approach to peace would be to blast them.  It's not hard for me to see and witness this ideology not working for most of my life.
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The communists swore to destroy democracy and capitalism.

We are neither democratic or capitalistic as a whole.  I think we swore to destroy communism.  More of that wanting peace ideology I suppose.  :rolleyes:
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The Islamist want to destroy everyone who doesn't believe as they do.

And so the Republican war mongers that want peace. :sad:

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The NKs are just nuts.
  That is what everyone in the world says about Trump for the same reason.
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They tell us their intent and the left thinks it's a joke to be ignored.

Rewriting history again... Clinton wanted to go after Putin, Assad, and maybe Israel for fueling the flames with the Palestinians.  No one I know on the left thinks aggression is a joke.  Everyone I know on the left wants to stop it and that usually STARTS with example.
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The Iranians want to usher in the Mahdi and have a plan to do it.  None of the intentions of these groups would be mitigated by our niceness.
A radical Muslim is no different than a radical Christian.  Both (and I stress this) are a minority, although the radical Christians in this country way outnumber the radical Muslims in the WORLD.  Both religions are based on accepting their enemies.  Radical groups should be handled by the majority.  Coming together of all countries for the good of all.  The real problem is we (the US) can't be trusted.  We make a pact to do something and then back out.  We are the worst partner in the world because as you say we are not nice.  Who can trust us?  No one.  So many hate us for good reason and they ain't all Muslim countries.  We've earned it.
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Silence is Golden
« Reply #84 on: June 01, 2017, 12:09:27 pm »
Ace, sorry.  None of that is worth the time to address because you just proved my point.  You have no idea what drives any of these people and so can't have a substantive conversation about them.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Online Psparr

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Re: Silence is Golden
« Reply #85 on: June 01, 2017, 12:25:09 pm »
 [/quote]although the radical Christians in this country way outnumber the radical Muslims in the WORLD.
[/quote]
 Boy Ace, you are quite lost in that fantasy of yours!

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Silence is Golden
« Reply #86 on: June 01, 2017, 12:34:02 pm »
The topic is "silence is golden".  I suggest we should be silent and let Ace and company rant into their tin foil hats alone.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Silence is Golden
« Reply #87 on: June 01, 2017, 12:56:28 pm »
The topic is "silence is golden".  I suggest we should be silent and let Ace and company rant into their tin foil hats alone.
Amen.
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline iddee

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Re: Silence is Golden
« Reply #88 on: June 01, 2017, 01:04:21 pm »
""no one really gets pinched by this tax much""

Are you kidding? Anyone who is making a living from year to year with a large single asset, IE: a 200 acre farm, will never have enough cash on hand to pay the 50% plus tax on the value of that asset. It means confiscating the asset and selling it to pay the tax. Then the income is gone and when the little that is left is gone, they have nothing.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline beecanbee

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Re: Silence is Golden
« Reply #89 on: June 01, 2017, 02:48:42 pm »
""no one really gets pinched by this tax much""

Are you kidding? Anyone who is making a living from year to year with a large single asset, IE: a 200 acre farm, will never have enough cash on hand to pay the 50% plus tax on the value of that asset. It means confiscating the asset and selling it to pay the tax. Then the income is gone and when the little that is left is gone, they have nothing.

That would be quite a high per acre valuation, since the tax only kicks in at over $5.4mil.  Maybe an illegal poppy field?   :smile:

And as an estate tax, the owner isn`t going to be doing any farming on it since he will be idling away his time in a cemetery somewhere.
"I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me."  Duncan Vandiver

A boy can do half the work of a man, but two boys do less, and three boys get nothing done at all. :)

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Offline iddee

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Re: Silence is Golden
« Reply #90 on: June 01, 2017, 03:57:23 pm »
Tell that to the 4th and 5th generations that had their family farms auctioned to pay the inheritance taxes during the 70's when it was in effect. I saw some of the auctions and it was not a pretty site watching the families cry with each hammer down sale of everything there.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Acebird

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Re: Silence is Golden
« Reply #91 on: June 01, 2017, 05:22:56 pm »
And as an estate tax, the owner isn`t going to be doing any farming on it since he will be idling away his time in a cemetery somewhere.

BW was trying to suggest that if you did your homework on estate planning your heirs would pay nothing.  But that means you have to trust your heirs.

BTW this has nothing to do with the original topic "Silence is Golden".  Just saying.
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Silence is Golden
« Reply #92 on: June 01, 2017, 07:18:44 pm »
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That would be quite a high per acre valuation, since the tax only kicks in at over $5.4mil.  Maybe an illegal poppy field?

how long have you been out of the country??  And it's not just on land, but on all assets.  equipment, homes, accounts, etc.  You can be living in a dump and have that much in assets easily.  And all those things have already been taxed and will be taxed again in the course of use or sale. 

The death tax was originally designed to hit the super rich, but having 5 mil in assets if you own land or a business is nothing these days. Not that it was ever fair to double tax the super rich, but it is doubly unfair to have this tax as it is now.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline beecanbee

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Re: Silence is Golden
« Reply #93 on: June 01, 2017, 07:33:26 pm »
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That would be quite a high per acre valuation, since the tax only kicks in at over $5.4mil.  Maybe an illegal poppy field?

how long have you been out of the country??  And it's not just on land, but on all assets.  equipment, homes, accounts, etc.  You can be living in a dump and have that much in assets easily.  And all those things have already been taxed and will be taxed again in the course of use or sale. 

The death tax was originally designed to hit the super rich, but having 5 mil in assets if you own land or a business is nothing these days. Not that it was ever fair to double tax the super rich, but it is doubly unfair to have this tax as it is now.

Fairly sure that it was just 0.1 % of estates that get hit, and that even then they get that $5.4mil deduction before being taxed at all.
"I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me."  Duncan Vandiver

A boy can do half the work of a man, but two boys do less, and three boys get nothing done at all. :)

(False) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.  - Samuel Johnson