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Author Topic: Frames with no foundation versus wax foundation for newbee  (Read 772 times)

Offline Simondsrach

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Frames with no foundation versus wax foundation for newbee
« on: February 15, 2017, 10:20:16 am »
So while I'm learning my mind keeps changing about equipment to order...  I want to be as natural as possible without making the tasks impossible ... so I'm curious about the frame styles that are made to be used without foundation so that the bees build their own natural comb without following a preset foundation I provide ... the kit I'm looking at offers several options of frame and foundation styles ... originally I was going to go with the "d" style frame and all wax foundation.   But I see a frame option for natural comb building.

   Is this a plausible  option for a first time bee keeper...
if I use wired wax foundation will I get honey comb or just comb honey.
If I buy frames that are developed to be used without foundation and its not working out, could I use the same style frame  and put wax foundation in

http://www.kelleybees.com/res/uploads/media//Frame-Style-Descriptions.pdf

Offline cao

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Re: Frames with no foundation versus wax foundation for newbee
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2017, 11:47:27 am »
When I first started I was going to go all foundationless.  I tried it and I would advise against it as a new beekeeper.  I would start with wax foundation until you get some experience working the bees.  It can be overwhelming at first without adding the problem of crosscombing.  My first year I had the bees draw the comb at a 45 degree angle across 5 frames before I caught it.  It was a mess and as a first year beek I didn't know what to do.  I am not against foundationless frames at all.  In fact I have some in my hives right now(and plan to have more). 

As far as the frames, there is no easy way to put foundation in the foundationless frames that I know of.  It is easier to go foundationless in the frames meant for foundation.   

The "d" style frame can be used either way.  You can use starter strips in place of the full sheet of wax foundation if you want to go foundationless. 

Offline Psparr

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Re: Frames with no foundation versus wax foundation for newbee
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2017, 11:48:48 am »
My advice would be to start out on foundation first, then when the colony is established start putting empty frames in the brood nest. They will build much nicer comb if they have a guide to follow. Starting with all foundationless is doable, but they can start building wonky comb and it is a pain getting it straightened out.

Online gww

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Re: Frames with no foundation versus wax foundation for newbee
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2017, 12:06:17 pm »
I went compleetly foundationless.


I have made hundreds of these. I can not add foundation to my frames later and so guess I am committed.  I put swarms into empty boxes with these and so far, I guess I am happy with the results.  I am first year with three hives and so may be in for a rude awakining.  I went this way cause I was trying to do bees with me making every thing and not having to buy stuff.  I am not promoting you do this but just showing the comb guide that I use.
Good luck
gww

Offline Michael Bush

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Offline mikecva

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Re: Frames with no foundation versus wax foundation for newbee
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2017, 02:07:33 pm »
I use foundation only because I watched a beek (35 years ago) spin down frames some frames and 1/3 of the frames broke off and needed to be crushed. I use wax for my Ross Rounds.  -Mike
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Offline Psparr

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Re: Frames with no foundation versus wax foundation for newbee
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2017, 02:50:11 pm »
I also forgot to mention that you'll get 11 different answers from 10 different beeks. Good luck!

Offline little john

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Re: Frames with no foundation versus wax foundation for newbee
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2017, 02:51:17 pm »
I started off foundationless for purely financial considerations, but it has proved to be a good decision for other reasons.
My favourite starter-strips are popsicle sticks, glued into the top bar foundation slot.
Until recently I used horizontal nylon fishing line to support the combs, but have just discovered vertical bamboo barbeque skewers - so that's the method of support I'll be using from now on.
LJ
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Offline Simondsrach

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Re: Frames with no foundation versus wax foundation for newbee
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2017, 12:37:16 am »
.ty.. I definetly know I want to go with the d style frames now...I think I need some video learning.   And will probably do foundation the first yeAr... I've been reading and learning from books/articles and this forum (mostly) I think my brain needs some visual lessons 😊

I read an article something about leaving a bottom box empty and letting the bees build comb down into it anyway they wanted for brood.   Anyone ever try that out. 

Offline Joe D

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Re: Frames with no foundation versus wax foundation for newbee
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2017, 02:11:35 am »
If you go foundationless you will need to keep a close eye on the comb.  If they start going cross several frames instead of staying on the one, if you catch it early you can straighten it out gently.  Even if you put a frame with foundation next to one without they can sometimes still not get it right.  But being your first year you will want to get in there and see what's going on often anyway.  I have some supers with mixed foundation, some just wax or plastic or foundationless.  Also if you sling foundationless frames they should have comb connected fairly good, it doesn't have to be all the way on every side though, start all frames if you can off slow and increase your speed some, when you think it is done slow it back down and stop.  I have slung a new wood frame with plastic foundation apart before.  All the comb honey I do is on foundationless frames.

Good luck with which ever you use.

Joe D

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Frames with no foundation versus wax foundation for newbee
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2017, 09:38:28 am »
>I read an article something about leaving a bottom box empty and letting the bees build comb down into it anyway they wanted for brood.   Anyone ever try that out.

When doing foundationless, I usually add the second box to the bottom and then bring drawn comb up to the next box after that, adding them to the top.
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Offline jimineycricket

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Re: Frames with no foundation versus wax foundation for newbee
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2017, 10:24:26 am »
Quote
I think I need some video learning.

Maybe you can spend some time here:  brushymountainbeefarm.com  click on the Bee Educated tab, on the left side go down to Videos > Frames & Foundation.

Or copy and past this link into your browser: http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/resources/videos_frames.asp#foundation
jimmy